Yes you're right, but if he was running a 'wet' manifold with two injectors at the inlet side of the SC as originally specified, then wouldn't this be a mute point?


I'm very aware of the Siamese charge robbing problem. As above stated this is of a lesser problem when you are running a 'wet' manifold (just like ye old SU carb). I personally would not waste time modifying the MS2 to run Siamese code and also including a cam sensor on the engine. If Jason wishes to go Siamese on the MS2, I would strongly recommend that he update to MS3 with the MSX board as stated in my previous post. One advantage often overlooked with the MS3 is the fine granularity of the injection pulse width, which allows for a better idle especially with larger injectors. Plus logging to SD Card, USB connection to your laptop, more A/D inputs and driver outputs...


I have followed the Turbominis thread when it first came out. My understanding is that once again they were trying to overcome charge robing in a direct port injection setup, not a wet manifold setup.

I still don't know how the third injector is going to be driven, as well as for the need for it, especially if the two injectors at the inlet are sized correctly.



Jim

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'68 Morris Mini 1310 A+ (Now Sold!)

sorry Jim - sounds like I overstepped the mark - I'm just looking at the photo of the new manifold and making assumptions

Jason, from what I can see in the photo, your new manifold (aside from the 3rd injector) is a port injection setup, not a wet manifold so you'll need to deal with the siamese charge robbing problem.

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did I tell you that I won a trophy?

You dudes are freaking me out, im all about plug and play! I dont really understand any of it, have tried and tried reading about charge robbing etc but it soon blurs into blah blah blah for me.

I will see how it runs once it is all back together and deal with any problems that arise then. No doubt there will be problems by the sounds of it...

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1965 Riley Elf
1974 Ex Army Moke
1997 Rover Cooper
2002 JCW Cooper
2003 JCW Cooper S

No apologies needed Simon, we are all trying to help Jason. I'm a bit confused as to what to call this setup, wet or direct. The injectors are not in the inlet ports per se and there is a possibility of cross injection (for lack of terminology) between ports. The turbulence of the SC may also cause mixture distribution problems also.

What do others think? I'd would have preferred the two injectors to have been in the inlet tract eg a wet system.

Jason don't freak out, did you not say that you had a MegaSquirt 'guru' over in Perth? Might pay to speak to him. The third injector according to my knowledge cannot be used with the current MS II ECU as it does not have three injector driver circuits, only two.

How it will run I don't know, if it has a lot of charge robbing, then watch out for lean detonation... holed pistons.

I've no experience with direct injection, cam phase sensors etc, so will have to take a back seat. You could use the third injector for water/methanol injection to limit detonation.

Jim

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'68 Morris Mini 1310 A+ (Now Sold!)

I wouldn't start using the term 'direct injection' as this is used for modern engines with the injector inside the combustion chamber. For our minis we either have port injection or throttle body injection as the two options. With charge robbing of the siamesed ports affecting port injection, it is either necessary to use sequential injection to time the injector pulses or to use an under-sized injector a long way from the ports to have long open times and act like an electric carb. That injector before the sc will result in a mixture at the port that is more even then the port injection and may help idle running. The downside is likely to be manifold wetting and the issues associated. They may not be huge as heated manifolds suffer less from wetting and a sc does a great job of heating everything.

M

Sorry, I did mean port injection. What I'm unsure of is what Jason's current setup is; is it port injection or a wet manifold, or a combination of both.

The bottom line is will he be affected by charge robbing?

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'68 Morris Mini 1310 A+ (Now Sold!)

Any luck with the pic? How is the fabricating going?

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Website: http://www.dutchysmini.com/
Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/Dutchysmini/

Previously owned the Red VTEC Mini (B16A)

Project currently on the go:
1961 Morris mini
Engine conversion - WRX EJ255

Ok so finally I can give an update. The car is going in today for the final wiring and dyno tune. It has been to a couple of people who could absolutely do what I wanted and after it sitting for weeks with sweet FA getting done I have pulled the car out and sourced another workshop who will finish the job.

It needs a few small things done to finish off, problem is now there has been a few different people "have a go" and make things harder for the guy who is going to finish it off. Fortunately this is exactly the sort of thing he specialises in so no doubt he will get it sorted.

I will post pics of the inlet manifold etc when it is off.

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1965 Riley Elf
1974 Ex Army Moke
1997 Rover Cooper
2002 JCW Cooper
2003 JCW Cooper S

I'm very interested in your results as I am planning to inject my engine as soon as I have more time and finances

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1969 Cooper "S"
1967 Mini Deluxe
1973 Clubman Van (the fleet spare)
1978 ex 1275 LS ("Wizard" Eaton Supercharged)
2015 HSV GenF GTS(occasional drive & tow car)
2019 MINI F55 Cooper S

Will post updates as soon as I have them mate. If this doesnt fix it once and for all (which I have been told it will) I will rip the whole damn lot out and replace it with another setup. The guy I have taken it to now has only played once with a megasquirt, he usually deals with haltech etc but told me today the guy 2 doors down was a whizz with them and it wouldnt be a problem.

If for some weird reason it still runs like shite I have a sc12 kit ready to bolt on to a purpose built 1275 and cooper s gearbox with LSD. I also have another 1275 ready to go with stage 3 head, full race cam and weber so either way this bloody car is going to be finished with or without the eaton charger!

As you can probably tell I have had quite enough of the dramas involved with this engine set up.

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1965 Riley Elf
1974 Ex Army Moke
1997 Rover Cooper
2002 JCW Cooper
2003 JCW Cooper S

Good luck, hopefully it will all be worth it once it's sorted.

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"Beware the lollipop of mediocrity: lick it once and you'll suck forever" Brian Wilson

Any update on how the new FI setup is going?
Can I assume by the silence that the results are not good?
Or the results are so good that you can't stop driving to update this thread?

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1969 Cooper "S"
1967 Mini Deluxe
1973 Clubman Van (the fleet spare)
1978 ex 1275 LS ("Wizard" Eaton Supercharged)
2015 HSV GenF GTS(occasional drive & tow car)
2019 MINI F55 Cooper S

Haha, quiet as I still dont have it back yet. Basically I am now pulling the MS out and putting in a Haltec. Too hard here in Perth to find anyone that knows anything about them and I am totally over it, severely tempted to put a match to the poxy thing!

The guru who knows about them had a look and said it was missing modules that needed to be in there and would have to order parts from the US etc etc. I threw all my toys out of the pram and told him to start from scratch. At least now I can take it to any tuners and most people will be able to tune the Haltec.

The fabricators had taken it upon themselves to fit me new fuel lines (which I had already done) and they have buggered them up with the return just going to the one tank so I am getting that fixed while it is in there.

So basically all the wiring is getting pulled out and start again, one person from start to finish that knows what they are doing. The dude doing the work has recently sacked all of his staff and is currently working alone so it will be a long process, doubt I will have it back before xmas.

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1965 Riley Elf
1974 Ex Army Moke
1997 Rover Cooper
2002 JCW Cooper
2003 JCW Cooper S