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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:32 pm 
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Mokesta wrote:
I've got about 1/2 way.

Made a manifold with 4 injectors, made the fuel rail, got the HP pump etc plus sensors. Got a Rover EFI diz for modification to crank angle sensor. See my set-up:

So, the physical stuff like I've done is easy. The computer stuff is easy to install but expensive to buy and tune. My project is stalled waiting until I can afford it.

M


I am only guessing, but are the injectors on top of the manifold, near the ports? Are they o-ringed or have hose tails to the fuel rail? (Mine are hose tail, one came off when I was at the last Catalina MCC thing and had to tow it home :cry: )

I am running a distributor but have found errorswith sync/ref signals during cranking (although the engine starts no problems). I am going to change this to run the sensors off the cam and run something similar to the edis coil Image set up as described in the A series mods forum.

What do you still need to get going?

DOZ

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:18 am 
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My injectors are standard Bosch 14mm with o-rings into bosses welded in the manifold and o-rings into a tig welded stainless steel fuel rail that is in a C shape so it goes to all 4 injectors.

I have: MAP sensor, TPS, Engine temp sensor, intake air temp sensor, single o2 sensor, EFI pump and lines, 60mm throttle body with idle bypass stepper. (VN v6)

I don't yet have: Suitable computer, crank angle sensor discs and sensors to put inside the dizzy housing. I want to use a Motec M4 or Haltech E6 and two Jacar crank triggers.

Also, my fuel rail has issues where the TIG welding overlapped with the original brazing. It started life as 2 N13 1.8L pulsar rails. The old brazed joints are leaking so I need to re-braze it.

My two runners are very long and taper from 38mm at port up to 41mm. The injectors sit on top. At the plenum end they come to an 8mm plate which I've ground to give an 8mm radius at the ends of the runners. Check out the pics below:

Image
This is before the injector bosses went on and before I turned the trottle 90 degrees.
See the runners are about 18 inches long and nice and straight before entry. Top half comes off for access to injectors and rail. Had to modify the extractors to clear the low runners

Image
This is what it looked like a short while before I got it painted.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:21 pm 
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Mokesta wrote:
My injectors are standard Bosch 14mm with o-rings into bosses welded in the manifold and o-rings into a tig welded stainless steel fuel rail that is in a C shape so it goes to all 4 injectors.


Very clever, mine are shaped like a V with each injector facing the opposing inlet valve. Because of this I had to run hose tails ala VL commodore. Would prefer o-rings to make removal hence cleaning injectors easier?

Mokesta wrote:
I don't yet have: Suitable computer, crank angle sensor discs and sensors to put inside the dizzy housing. I want to use a Motec M4 or Haltech E6 and two Jacar crank triggers.


I typed for 1/2hr before some Fwit tried to call (damn dial up)and lost the lot :x :x :x .

A shorter version of what I typed is,

I?ve got a mini dizzy with Toyota wheels (24 tooth/4 tooth, with the 4 converted to 1 tooth) and Mazda RX7 series 4 sensors. This was very cheap as the Toyota dizzy was a 4AGE or something from an importer (it was crushed on one side) and the Mazda bits I got off a friend who had put a dizzy on after doing the conversion and didn?t need the stock mazda crank angle sensor.

I modified the dizzy to fit the bits but if I were to do it again now I would put a sensor, either with a wheel or a hall effect/magnet set up, on the cam pulley. This is because of the slop in the crank to cam to dizzy drive (inaccurate) and it is much less complicated. You can still use the dizzy with a single bosch coil and ignitor to keep it cheap, you just take out the contact points.

For the ECU you must get the advanced tuning options which allow sequential, individual cyl trim and end of injection timing adjustment as I think you already know. When I did mine haltech didn?t even have a ECU with sequential but their new E6X seems to have all this. Also if you buy the base model Motec M4 you must get the advanced tuning options, which the Pro comes with standard.

Cheers

DOZ

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:37 pm 
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Pic of the guts of my Dizzy Mod

Image

Cheers

DOZ

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:03 pm 
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Mokesta wrote:
I've got about 1/2 way.

Made a manifold with 4 injectors, made the fuel rail, got the HP pump etc plus sensors. Got a Rover EFI diz for modification to crank angle sensor. See my set-up:

Image

I've made the intake runners as long as possible for max torque but still large for high HP.

As stated above, the 2 ports per cylinder and firing order means that with standard group fire EFI, two cylinders will run rich and two lean. To overcome this you need to use a lower flow injector with very high duty cycle (electric carby like Rover SPI) which gives an even air/fuel mix throughout the intake, like a carby does.

The other solution is to use sequential injection and time the injector pulses just right so that each cylinder gets the correct mix. The Rover MPI is sequential. Make a change to the engine and you need to re-calibrate the injector phasing. The Rover MPI system also aprays the fuel onto a large surface area (combed) part of the manifold. This has the effect of evening out the air/fuel mixture during the intake stroke as opposed to the sudden changes that occur as injectors are open for only a fraction of the stroke.

To do a multi-point system for a 5-port mini you must have a computer that can do sequential (eg Haltech and Motec). You must have a crank angle sensor system that can pick No 1 TDC at Firing stroke against exhaust stroke. This means you need a sensor on the cam or dizzy, not just crank. Hence the Rover MPI cam sensor in the back of the engine and my design of sensor inside the locked Rover dizzy.

Then you'll need to put two oxygen sensors on the engine to tune it so that you can get the A/F ratio right for inner pair and outer pair. A single sensor will just give you the average. Could use 2 exhaust temp probes instead to balance and a single o2 sensor.

Then you need a tuner who understands what the engine needs and can use the injector opening delay parameter and sequential functions of the computer to set it up right on the dyno.

So, the physical stuff like I've done is easy. The computer stuff is easy to install but expensive to buy and tune. My project is stalled waiting until I can afford it.

M


back from the dead... whatever happened to this stuff Mokesta?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:26 pm 
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No progress on this. Since then we had another child renovated a house sold it and renovated another. I also bought my mx-5, supercharged it and took it to a bunch of track days. I burned all my wife points on that thing for a few years.

I have also had some very time consuming projects at work.

I am happy with the design but there were problems with my fabrication which really means it needs to be re-built. Only very recently have suitable ECUs with sequential injection with adjustable dwell per injector become affordable so I have never bought an ecu.

All the Siamese port problems went away when the 7 port heads became available so I bought one of those. You may have seen that I am slowly sorting out a manifold for that head.

I am happy to give away the design model of this to anyone who wants to have a go at fabricating it. They can also have the 1st prototype to use as a guide but I would want that back eventually.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:19 pm 
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Don't even remember typing all that lol

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:28 pm 
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Mokesta wrote:
No progress on this................


so life happened :lol:

DOZ wrote:
Don't even remember typing all that lol


I only found this thread because I was looking for details on your injection setup - I have it in my head that you're using a megasquirt to deal with the siamese port issue (individual timed sequential injection blah blah)

are you?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:58 pm 
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That's what is required and yes I am using a megasquirt but:

For the 5 port I originally planned to use an old Delco ecu until I learnt about the charge robbing issue.
My megasquirt is a plug-n-play one for an mx-5 and it is an earlier generation that doesn't do sequential. I plan to use that for the 7 port cross flow head.


M


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:12 pm 
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Mokesta wrote:
That's what is required and yes I am using a megasquirt but:

For the 5 port I originally planned to use an old Delco ecu until I learnt about the charge robbing issue.
My megasquirt is a plug-n-play one for an mx-5 and it is an earlier generation that doesn't do sequential. I plan to use that for the 7 port cross flow head.


M


sorry, not you, I meant DOZ - I want to know if DOZ is using siamese code stuff


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:29 pm 
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I have a Motec M4 pro (1996) which has individual cylinder tuning. You basically need to be able to do two tunes, one for the inside cylinders and one for the outside. Sequential is not enough on its own.

Daniel

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:12 pm 
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check this out

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-cooper-S ... 35b8428484


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:10 pm 
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Don't mind the wal Phillips injection now where to find another pair ...

Image

This is what I used to have on my car ... Worked ok but the injectors were too big and it was hard to get the linkages to work properly.. ( RX7 series 4 )

Image

This is now what I have It runs just needs to go in for a tune ... I think the cam may be too big for the engine its a kent 296 ..it also has a very large head with offset valves and made 75hp atw with a 45mm weber so time will tell if this combo will work ..



Beanie

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Last edited by Beanie on Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:08 pm 
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Beanie wrote:
Don't ming the wal Phillips injection now where to find another pair ...
.. And a large head of made 75hp with a 45mm weber so time will tell

Beanie


In English?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:44 am 
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Stuwey wrote:
Beanie wrote:
Don't ming the wal Phillips injection now where to find another pair ...
.. And a large head of made 75hp with a 45mm weber so time will tell

Beanie


In English?


Fixed now thats what you get for typing in bed on your phone .. :oops:

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'65 NCF MINI.....
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