Ausmini
It is currently Thu Jun 26, 2025 7:39 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:39 pm 
Offline
1275cc
1275cc
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:07 pm
Posts: 4682
Location: sunbury victoria
anyone know if the under 2 litre sports sedans have rules apart from the under 2 litre one? im having ideas about space frames and the like for a long term diy project with rear wheel drive and not much mini stuff cept the shell :twisted:

_________________
Potato


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:20 pm 
Offline
Bimmer Twinky
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 4:36 pm
Posts: 8606
Location: Brisbane
If the car came out as a front engine car from the factory, then The engine must remain in the front,,, as in at least the center point of the engine cannot be moved more rearward than the center point of the car,

The shell must still be the same "silouette" as the original

there are more rules, but they`re (roughly) the main criteria

look up CAMS on the net & organise the "Manual" of motorsport in Aust & you`ll be well on your way

what`s your thoughts for the sports sedan anyways??? ,,, i don`t think they allow bike engines (yet)

_________________
No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:30 pm 
Offline
Yay For Hay!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:27 pm
Posts: 15912
Location: Wodonga - Vic/NSW border
interesting read...

http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/02_race/d_3rd_Category/RA22_Group_3D_Q209.pdf

_________________
did I tell you that I won a trophy?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:34 pm 
Offline
1275cc
1275cc
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:07 pm
Posts: 4682
Location: sunbury victoria
i was thinking front engine but sort of back as far as i can legally get it.. but not sure which engine to be honest.. wouldnt be a east west engine, i know that turbo chargers bump you up a class but some sort of jap turbo 4 cylinder stupid hp thing... or if they do allow bike engines a north south mounted rwd hayabusa turbo engine.. but im more interested in the frame and body at the moment.. i just feel like building something stupidly fast, but not be a money pit as that all goes into proper racing.

_________________
Potato


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:37 am 
Offline
1098cc
1098cc

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:40 pm
Posts: 1325
Location: wasleys S.A.
my mini sports sedan[almost finished] is a S&A replica sprint gt. These are the only cut down body that will comply.The car was supplied in this form by a authorised BMC dealer, exactly the same as HDT and other types of cars.
A mini has to be still front wheel drive. Mine has a super-charged 2lt t/c toyota driving thru a holinger 5 speed VW box. The eng sits along side the driver's seat and is north/south set-up[end for end] The front pully is on the center line of the wheel base.
The car has a full space frame with fully adjustable rose joint suspension.
If you go big HP and mid engine ,the first 2 things to do is BIG brakes and bin the mini suspension. Handling and braking are more important that power.

_________________
Research is the difference between speculation and investment. Anyone who copys some one else will always be second
www.minisprintgt.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:41 am 
Offline
848cc
848cc

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:51 am
Posts: 26
Location: Bendigo
An issue you may have with a Mini based sports sedan is the minimum weight. You get a 50kg dispensation for front wheel drive, but I got "pinged" at Phillip Island a few years back. My car was over 50kg underweight and it wasn't a spaceframe car. With a non A series based engine it might not be such an issue, but something to consider. At least if you have to put weight into the car you can put it in the right spots :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:33 pm 
Offline
1275cc
1275cc
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:07 pm
Posts: 4682
Location: sunbury victoria
cheers guys, i will definately use big stoppers and non mini suspension. i wouldnt go to the trouble of building something modern with 60's brakes on it..

so if it were front wheel drive could i build something like this?

Image

or something similar in a space frame.. if it means it wont be classed as an under 2 litre car it doesnt matter, il just have to put a v8 in it or something :lol:

_________________
Potato


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:24 pm 
Offline
1098cc
1098cc

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:40 pm
Posts: 1325
Location: wasleys S.A.
meeni wrote:
cheers guys, i will definately use big stoppers and non mini suspension. i wouldnt go to the trouble of building something modern with 60's brakes on it..

so if it were front wheel drive could i build something like this?

Image

or something similar in a space frame.. if it means it wont be classed as an under 2 litre car it doesnt matter, il just have to put a v8 in it or something :lol:


bring back the good old days of sports closed class. free to build what ever you wanted. There were some un-believable cars in this class in the 60's&70's, but the same old story,a group of whingers driving uncompetetive cars did not like getting beaten by a little cut down mini.
Sports sedan class is still the same today, people in uncompeditive cars making the rules so that they can win

_________________
Research is the difference between speculation and investment. Anyone who copys some one else will always be second
www.minisprintgt.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:52 pm 
Offline
Causing or creating vexation

Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:32 pm
Posts: 19124
meeni wrote:
cheers guys, i will definately use big stoppers and non mini suspension. i wouldnt go to the trouble of building something modern with 60's brakes on it..

so if it were front wheel drive could i build something like this?

Image

or something similar in a space frame.. if it means it wont be classed as an under 2 litre car it doesnt matter, il just have to put a v8 in it or something :lol:

Read the damn rules. It will tell you what you can and can't do.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:57 pm 
Offline
1275cc
1275cc
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:07 pm
Posts: 4682
Location: sunbury victoria
the rules basically say use a normal chassis or u get penalties, non turbo or you get penalties.. hardly sports sedans.. more like improved production

_________________
Potato


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:00 pm 
Offline
848cc
848cc

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:51 am
Posts: 26
Location: Bendigo
Spot on David, couldn't agree more. Good luck with the project Meeni, a spaceframe Mini with good handling, braking and suitable power would be a weapon.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:02 pm 
Offline
1275cc
1275cc
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:07 pm
Posts: 4682
Location: sunbury victoria
i cant start doing it til i know ive got free space for a couple of years anyway.. im going to look at the proper sports sedan rules now..

_________________
Potato


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:14 am 
Offline
1275cc
1275cc
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 6:31 pm
Posts: 4663
Location: Sydney - strangely, I am glad of the sight of hills!!
CAMS Manual wrote:
1.1 ... This group caters for dedicated circuit racing cars of essentially free construction which utilise coachwork being recognisable as that of a production vehicle. The basic vehicle shall be a front-engined car utilising either a steel tube chassis to which a non-load bearing coachwork shall be attached (spaceframe vehicle), or heavily modified vehicle that utilises the standard factory sheetmetal (floorpan vehicle). ...

2. ELIGIBILITY
To be eligible for this group cars must be series production closed cars, manufactured primarily from steel and must be or have been:
(1) on sale in Australia through a recognised manufacturer franchised dealer network, or
(2) of a type of which a minimum of 5,000 examples have been manufactured worldwide, or
(3) automobiles which otherwise do not comply with (1) and (2) above but which have been recommended by NSSC and approved by CAMS.

3. COACHWORK
3.1 The body shell (deemed to be the roof, A, B and C pillars, sill panels, scuttle/plenum panel and the front door frames) shall be unchanged in external shape except as hereinafter provided.
3.2 (i) The bumper bars and grilles must retain their original shape and position

3.4 Mudguards:
...The flares may be extended in width up to a maximum of 100mm per side in excess of the original width of the body at the measured point. From the reformed wheel arch the mudguard flare must merge from the allowed 100mm to 50mm by 50% of the length of flare, and therefore merge with the original body at an included angle of not more than 45° ...

4.4 Engines

... (ii) Engines mounted in the front (subject to the above) may intrude into the space originally intended for passengers, save that no part of the cylinder block may extend across a line drawn at right angles to the longitudinal axis of the vehicle at a point halfway between the front and rear wheel hub centres. ...

8. RACING WEIGHTS
up to 1300cc 680kg
1301 – 1600cc 730kg
1601 – 2000cc 780kg
2001 – 2500cc 800kg
2501 – 3550cc 900kg
3551 – 4500cc 975kg
4501 – 5100cc 1050kg
5101 – 6000cc 1125kg

Front-wheel drive:
subtract 50kg from the above weights
Multi-valve vehicles:
add 75kg to the above weights for vehicles above 2501cc swept volume
All four-wheel drive vehicles:
add 50kg to the above weights
Note: These are minimum racing weights for rear-wheel drive vehicles, and include the driver.
These weights may be revised by CAMS.


These are the most relevant rules when looking at that pic.

Mini is eligible, no matter what age, because more than 5000 were built worldwide. There used to be a rule that any car manufactured prior to 1980 had to have the same wheels driven as it came from the factory, so for Minis this meant you could not make it RWD. Not the case any more.

The Mini Sprint as a sports sedan is only eligible if given specific approval by CAMS as there was not more than 5000 of these made and they do not comply with 3.1. This rule would also discount a lot of the UK and Japanese spaceframe cars because of the core body shape changes, like the rake of the A pillars in the pic. I daresay this would only become a real issue if you started winning.

The flares on the one in the pic do not comply with 3.4.

Your idea of laying the engine back behind the axle line works as long as you comply with 4.4 (ii).

The thing that would kill any real advantage of a modern Mini sports sedan is the minimum racing weights. Everyone who has a 2Lt car will be on the same weight, saving only 50kg for FWD. You have to compare that to the disadvantage of traction of a FWD, but if you set it up like the old FWD 2Lt supertourers it could be very good.

Victoria is the only state really running a U2Lt sprts sedan championship. Best you talk to those guys at the next meeting to get a feel for the series and what is the best approach.

http://www.2litress.com/calendar.php

cheers
michael

_________________
the world is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page
66 Mini Minor sponsored by http://www.lifeonthehedge.com.au/ The Dog Harness Specialists
It was a pleasure ausmini. I'll miss all you misfits and reprobates ;-)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:16 am 
Offline
1275cc
1275cc
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:07 pm
Posts: 4682
Location: sunbury victoria
i know the guy that has the current winning one, i see them at the track when im racing the porsche, some of them are less then impressive, others are really nice.

thanks for the info!

_________________
Potato


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:34 pm 
Offline
1275cc
1275cc
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 6:31 pm
Posts: 4663
Location: Sydney - strangely, I am glad of the sight of hills!!
meeni wrote:
some of them are less then impressive, others are really nice.


I know what you mean. Some of them have had mega$$$$ spent on them, others have been hacked together by a backyarder but still manage to pass scrutineering. As long as it is safe, the looks don't matter so much, but if you present the car well, you will always sail through scrutineering.

My brother's old Corolla came from Victoria. It was a buy ready to race deal, but being the anal retentive that he is, everything had to be made to look perfect. Even though it was a lot of effort, everyone always appreciated how well presented it was, especially the scrutineers.

Spending big $ on U2Lt cars seems to go against the spirit of the championship because it is meant to be a low cost category with all the technical freedoms that sports sedans allow. Better to see a grid full of cars turn up all the time that have been cheaply built and have a chance of winning than one guy who spent $100k to have an unbeatable car.

I would be really interested to see what you develop for this meeni. There are some fibreglass Mini shells going for cheap in the UK at the moment. Ideal for a spaceframe car.

or this http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/2739/cat/10

_________________
the world is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page
66 Mini Minor sponsored by http://www.lifeonthehedge.com.au/ The Dog Harness Specialists
It was a pleasure ausmini. I'll miss all you misfits and reprobates ;-)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

© 2016 Ausmini. All garage work involves equal measures of enthusiasm, ingenuity and a fair degree of irresponsibility.