I've been asked if the wheels I have for sale will fit over particular brake setups. To answer this I've traced the inside profile of 3 wheel types. If you print the picture to scale, you can make a cut-out that is the shape of the wheel and check to see if it clears your brake components.



I have a *.tiff file that prints 1:1 in A3 but photobucket won't host it. Email if you want a copy.

Anyone got any other wheels they can add? I am considering adding 13" Sunraysias adn 10" steelies.

M.

Without the offset measurement, the information really wont help anybody

_________________
[NATHAN] -- Sold everything mini related and am back in big beautiful BMWs

Perhaps I didn't explain what these are for. They are to check the inside profile of the wheel against any brake clashes. You would only need the offset to work out whether you'll need flares or not.

So the question of "I've got Cooper S discs on my mini, will the Wolfrace wheels foul the calipers?" can be answered.

Maybe those who don't understand won't be helped, but if you don't understand this concept, there is not much that will help you....

OK so that profile is the top of a wheel laying down?

The horizontal line in each profile is the wheel mounting face that goes against your drum or drive flange. The rest of the shape is the inside profile of the wheel to the inner lip. If you print it and cut out a "U" shape template, you can offer it up to your drive flange and check that the shape doesn't clash with your caliper.

I have published the offsets of each wheel in my for sale ad. If you offset the horizontal line up by that amount to get the centre-line then mirror the rim edge down about the centre-line you would have the outside profile. Now you can find out if the rim will be outside the guard. Add a bit for tyre profile and you can work out how big your flares need to be.

Simple really.

I get it, cool! nice work

_________________
Lillee - 1969 Morris Mini K

Nope, you still need to know the offset of the particular rim.

The profile may suit properly, but if the offset is wrong (into the negative), the caliper can still foul on the vertical face of the rim. Trust me on this one.......... ive had Minilite rims that didnt fit simply because they were a strange offset. The only way to get them to clear was with a 5mm spacer.

It was a simple case of the mounting face on this particular rim being "thinner" than other rims. It brought THAT brake profile youve drawn closer to the caliper.... too close in this case, because it hit and wouldnt let the spoke past the caliper. Alloy wheels are thicker/thinner at the mounting face to change the offset. THIS thickness effects the caliper clearance - sometimes the clearance is LARGE, other times it is miniscule.

If i need to draw this, please say so......

Steel wheels (widened stockies), however, do not change offset in the same fashion.... and so this theory does not apply.

Never assume that all alloy wheel profiles will fit, because not all of them are made with the same offset....... thats what i'm trying to say.

_________________
[NATHAN] -- Sold everything mini related and am back in big beautiful BMWs

OK, I've got a picture for you.

Remember that I'm trying to give people information for them to determine if they will have a CLASH BETWEEN THE BRAKES AND THE WHEEL. Not whether they need flares.

The sketch below shows the whole wheel cross section. The dashed parts are estimated, the heavy line is the measured profile of the inside face that I published earlier.

If you print the wheel inner face drawing 1:1 scale, cut out the shape so you have a "U" and offer it up to your hub assembly, you can clearly tell whether there will be a clash with the brake caliper or anything else. You just need the heavy line of the inside face. You DO NOT need the offset to work this out.



The offset allows you to work out the location of the outer wheel face by mirroring the inner rim face about the wheel centre.

So Super850, you have got the wrong end of the stick when you wrote "It brought THAT brake profile youve drawn closer to the caliper.... too close in this case" because I have not, until now, drawn any brake parts at all. Just the wheel inside face.

If you need more help on this I can try another explanation. Alternatively, please show me your sketch and I'll try to follow how "if the offset is wrong (into the negative), the caliper can still foul on the vertical face of the rim. Trust me on this one.......... "

The drawings I have provided would work whether the wheel was steel or alloy. Saying that the concept changes for steelies is a red herring or just plain wrong. Maybe you have a misguided understanding of the term "offset" See my drawing for what the offset is.

Perhaps because I deal with degree qualified engineers all day, I have assumed a level of understanding that was too high.........

M.

Ive got 12in Performance Superlites, i cant even fit the honda civic disc bracke conversion to these due to insuffecient clearance. The inside dia of the rim is almost that of a 10in wheel. So i had to scrap plans of fitting the honda conversion. The wheels are only 3 yrs old.....

_________________

http://www.youtube.com/user/Hanras

Mokestar, i have wolfrace wheels & they do fit over "S" brakes

ok?

_________________
No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.

Like I said, i got it and it is a novel idea!

But then again i did engineering subjects at uni and I aced the drafting subjects

_________________
Lillee - 1969 Morris Mini K

Please dont get angry, that is not what I wanted at all....

I acknowlegde that you are smarter than most, and what you are saying is absolutely correct in this situation, HOWEVER, some wheels need a bit more information..

Once again, I will say that the offset CAN affect the caliper clearance - but in a way you may not have seen on the wheel and brake combinations you've worked with.

Please read on.

Not all alloys have a perfectly flat mounting face like the one you have pictured. A lot of alloy wheels made today come with a step on the mounting face that determines the offset of the rim. By making this step THICKER, the wheel's offest goes more into the "+" without changing any other part of the wheel's design. They can keep the same 20mm dish on a particular rim right across the offset range simply by modifying the mounting flange step thickness and the depth of the stud hole taper.

I have taken the liberty of modifying your diagram to show you


*note - this may not apply to your wheel Mokesta, but it does apply to other makes that are on the market..

Okay.... here you can see I have included the mounting flange step (as found on some wheels), coloured in blue.

By increasing or reducing the thicness of this BLUE section, the clearance marked in RED changes accordingly. Also, by increasing the BLUE thickness, the wheel manufacturers can change the offset of an alloy wheel without changing the face profile (dish) or visual appearance, because the mounting surface is infact moved closer to the rear of the rim.

If you were to order a new alloy wheel package from TyrePower or wherever, and the brochure says that the wheel comes in +20, +32 and +40mm offsets, you will find that alot of manufacturers simply machine down (or change the casting) of the thickness of this step on the rim. By doing this, every size rim will have the same profile and dish of the one in the brochure. This may simply be a way of cutting costs, who knows....

Lenso Wheels are guilty of doing this. I am 110% sure. I can think of at least 10 wheels in their range that are available in different offsets by having a different step thickness - and they all have the exact same dish size.

Now, depending on the make of car and profile of the caliper in relation to the mounting flange, this step makes a GREAT deal of difference. If you are using a larger caliper (eg: 4 pot or 6 pot) or a custom brake setup, the face of the caliper can be much closer to the face of the mounting flange face on the brake assembly, and would possibly foul the RED distance in the picture OR between the caliper and the back of the spokes.

Some calipers I have seen on other cars stick out further than the mounting flange, so without the step on the wheel, it simply wouldnt fit on without fouling the wheel spoke on the caliper.

The only thing I can think of is that you have never seen this design feature on a wheel before.... maybe because it has never applied to your situation.

I'm not saying that you are wrong, I am simply pointing out that there are other factors that need to be considered with SOME of the wheels and brakes that people are using... but obviously not with the alloys you have drawn.

Sorry if I am getting you angry, that wasnt my objective at all.

PS... let's please not assume that ALL Qualified Engineers are gods. Some of them are old dogs that cant and wont learn new tricks. Trust me - I work with some that are completey one-track-minded and believe everything they know is "the way". I may not have a Laminated Certificate on my wall that proves my intelligence, but I might know a thing or 2 that they dont... and maybe even 3

_________________
[NATHAN] -- Sold everything mini related and am back in big beautiful BMWs

Super, I drew the entire inside wheel profile from rim to rim. It just happened that the three I drew all had flat insides. If they had the type that you drew, then that is what I would have drawn. I am totally familiar with how wheels are made and can assure you I knew about the different thickness mounting flanges. I have actually bought alloys for another car. Even from Tyrepower as per your example. I specified the offset I wanted and got it. But you wrote: Which, I'm sorry, as it related to my original post for those three wheels and anyone looking to purchase them and fit them to their car is WRONG WRONG WRONG.

I am not selling a wheel type in range of offsets, I am selling the three specific wheel types drawn. I've shown the profile rim to rim including the mounting flange. So when you again said "Nope, you still need to know the offset of the particular rim." you have to understand why I thought you were either stupid or trying to hijack this with a red herring.

For the three wheels I've shown AND FOR ANY OTHER RIM SHOWN RIM TO RIM ON THE INNER FACE INCLUDING THE MOUNTING FLANGE this method would work.

If I was selling XXX brand wheels with offsets ranging from X to Y and drew a picture of just one of the range then your comments would have been justified. But I wasn't, so please just admit that my original post was both perfectly accurate and all the information prospective buyers, worried about a brake clash, would have needed.

M

Did you try?..i have the same wheels and i'm running Honda discs?

_________________

Starlet Conversion:
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15484

Mini Mad, this is where Supercharged850 is totally correct. You and Hanra could well both have Performance 12" wheels but Performance make their wheels in different offsets so your wheels may be different to his.