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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 3:53 am 
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848cc
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:10 am
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How does cam timing come into it??? If the #1 Piston is at TDC on the firing stroke or not the marks should still line up
with the pointer. The only way it could be otherwise is the flywheel to hub boss is incorrectly fitted,although I don't think you can actually be 180deg out? Or somebody forced the offset washer into the crank.


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 7:57 am 
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848cc
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Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 8:48 am
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Location: Gold Coast QLD
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 8:08 am 
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848cc
848cc

Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 8:48 am
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Location: Gold Coast QLD
Here are some photos, click on them to get the correct orientation
I have been thinking hard about this
How could the timing be out TDC is TDC for No1 whether it be the firing stroke or not even if the valve timing was out.
The keyway washer has not been forced in no way its looking fine
I took these photos with it on the firing stroke so both valves rocking on No4 as per the manual
and when i pulled the flywheel off this was also its orientation as I have marked the flywheel and flywheel housing with a red pen during extraction
This engine was professionally built last time but has suffered damage in the piston department due to incorrect assembly of the piston and gudgeon assembly ( small end was not reamed to suit floating pin and circlips put in upside down causing gudgeon to bind and smash through the clip into the bore )
I have the receipts of the well known mini mechanic and builder who assembled this engine but I'm not going to name and shame as it was a long time ago and thats not how i roll

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 10:37 am 
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998cc
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Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:46 pm
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Location: Melbourne
The pics show it all.
It is 180 deg out.
The centre has been taken apart as the staking marks on the centre bolts are not the originals.
The original stake marks are the 3 around the inner edge of the nuts. The single stake marks on the bolt ends have been done when it was put back together in the incorrect alignment.

Edit:
A bit more info. Just to be sure I checked a crankshaft.
The large offset in the end of the crank should be to the RHS with cylinders 1 and 4 at TDC.
In the pics it is on the LHS. Hence the flywheel 1/4 TDC marks are out by 180 deg.

RonR

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 12:38 pm 
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998cc
998cc

Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:20 pm
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Location: Victoria
To confirm it may be the flywheel arse about, why not borrow a complete one from someone and see what the alignment looks like.


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 1:17 pm 
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Location: near Baulkham Hills, NSW
With the keyway slot to left of centre, and vertical, on a stock flywheel the timing marks are always at the top.
However when you lighten a flywheel they disappear, I weld a pointer to the timing cover instead, mark the pulley for TDC, and use a dialback timing light.

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 1:52 pm 
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848cc
848cc

Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 8:48 am
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Location: Gold Coast QLD
miniron wrote:
The pics show it all.
It is 180 deg out.
The centre has been taken apart as the staking marks on the centre bolts are not the originals.
The original stake marks are the 3 around the inner edge of the nuts. The single stake marks on the bolt ends have been done when it was put back together in the incorrect alignment.

Edit:
A bit more info. Just to be sure I checked a crankshaft.
The large offset in the end of the crank should be to the RHS with cylinders 1 and 4 at TDC.
In the pics it is on the LHS. Hence the flywheel 1/4 TDC marks are out by 180 deg.

RonR

Can I just unbolt this and correct it ?
I guess the stake marks are old school to stop the nuts from working loose but we have loctite now

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 2:12 pm 
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998cc
998cc

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:59 pm
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Location: Holt ACT
miniblue wrote:
Can I just unbolt this and correct it ?
I guess the stake marks are old school to stop the nuts from working loose but we have loctite now


I want to get it balanced before whacking it back on. You just don't know if it'll be OK bolted up again in a different position.


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 2:43 pm 
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848cc
848cc

Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 8:48 am
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Location: Gold Coast QLD
Why would the flywheel even be pulled apart? does it have to be if it needs machining ?

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 4:03 pm 
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998cc
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Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:59 pm
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Location: Holt ACT
miniblue wrote:
Why would the flywheel even be pulled apart? does it have to be if it needs machining ?


I would say no.


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 5:41 pm 
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998cc
998cc

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:46 pm
Posts: 728
Location: Melbourne
The centre was probably taken apart to replace a damaged centre or outer section. The tapered hole that mates with the crankshaft can be damaged if it isn't tightened properly to 110 lbft torque.
If it is over tightened it can be almost impossible to get off and can be damaged during the removal process.
Many have tried with varying degrees of success to knock the flywheel off with a large hammer through the starter motor hole when no proper puller is available. The flywheel housing doesn't like it either when you miss the hole.
Cast iron doesn't take kindly to being hit with a large hammer nor does the flywheel housing.
I had to replace a flywheel because the outer section where the diaphragm spring seats was worn or poorly machined originally.
Its easier to get another flywheel. The later ones are one piece and don't have the alignment problem unless the timing marks have been removed during a lightening process.
If you wish to balance the flywheel you can balance it as an assembly or balance each piece individually then balance the whole assembly.
Would it make any real difference to use the second method?
NBI, but the flywheel does hang out a long way from the rear bearing and this can cause crank flexing if it is not balanced properly.

RonR

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2023 5:24 am 
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848cc
848cc

Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:44 am
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I see that your flywheel is similar to mine, (except for the 180 degrees flip), in that the timing marks (TDC 1/4, 5, 10) are away from any of the pressure plate mounting holes.
I'm trying to locate the correct position of the assembly marks on the flywheel to align the factory 'A' marks that are on the pressure pklate and the spring plate.
All my reference books indicate the 'A' marks should be lined up with the timing marks, but since they occur half way between two of the pressure plate mounting holes, I have two choices, what is the recommendation in that case please?
All other mountings are correct, the crankshaft to flywheel washer etc is correct and the timing marks line up when the motor has cylinders 1 and 4 at top dead centre. It's just the holes for the 'A' marks that doesn't line up.
This is an Australian built BMC 998 1967 build.
TIA.


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