G'day,

I had a "clunking" noise when coming to a stop while braking and after jacking up the car to try and see what was wrong, I initially thought I had a loose wheel bearing. After advice from Doc and further checking, it turns out I had play in the top ball joint on the swivel hub. Both sides have some play but the passenger side has more play than the driver's side.

I fitted NOS Rover ball joints when I did the resto and Minnie has done about 1,800 miles so far on fairly dodgy country roads.

When I fitted the ball joints, I mucked around for ages trying to get them just right shim wise and a retired mechanic mate had a look at them before I put them on the car and he reckons they were good to go. The movement of the joint pin was quite firm but you could move it by hand still. Nut was torqued to 70lb. Lock tab was bent up in 3 places and everything was still tight when I pulled it apart.

With the hub off, the top pin was quite loose but concerningly, the movement of the pin was not smooth - very rough in places.

What I've found is that the small round end of the joint pin has a significant groove cut into it from the little cup that sits in the hub itself. The groove goes right around the pin and is on one side of the pin, not the centre, which means that the wear was caused when the pin itself was at the extremity of it's sideways travel. Hope that makes sense. I'm now looking for help on what I've done wrong so I don't make the same mistake again. I'd much prefer driving Minnie that working on her.

One thing that may be worth mentioning is that when I set up the Hi-Lo's (on new rubber cones), I had them adjusted fairly low with the drive shafts sitting parallel to the ground initially. I'd say quite a bit lower than standard. Since it's been on the road, the cones have compressed a bit and the car ended up sitting about 3/4 inch lower all round. A bit too low and I've since adjusted the Hi-Lo's to lift it up by about 3/4". Drive shafts are parallel to ground again. Would having Minnie too low caused this?

Thanks Rocky

Yuck... what sort of grease did you have in them?

_________________
did I tell you that I won a trophy?

Castrol LMM. I use it in everything else I've got. I set the shims, then pulled them apart and applied grease to all surfaces. Hit the hubs with the grease gun before I fitted them and again a few weeks ago. There was plenty of grease inside the joint when I pulled it apart today.

I reckon the ball pins weren't hardened properly, I've not see them wear like this, ever. We've had Minis since 1964.

_________________
DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

Just my luck to get the dodgy parts . Looks like ball joints and me are just destined to not get along. I had trouble getting the minispares ones adjusted right - typically they tended to bind in one spot and loose in others - so I decided to go with the NOS ones.

Back to the drawing board and I'm having another crack at fitting the minispares ones.

Update so far. After lots of playing around, I reckon I've got the top joint on the passenger side OK. Fairly firm (by hand) movement of the pin all directions. That one's ready to grease up and knock up the lock tab.

Seeing as though the top one was dodgy, I thought it best to check the bottom one. It wasn't loose (most likely due to the spring) and the movement of the pin was ok but not 100%. A slight notchiness to it. The end of the pin is not grooved like the top one but does have signs of wear - refer the pic below. Bit hard to see the wear marks but they are there.
After quite some time playing with the shims, I still can't get the pin to move consistently throughout all directions of travel. This is the same issue I had originally with these. In the upright and say 3/4 tilt to each side, the movement is nice and firm by hand.
However, when I push the pin right over to the extremity of it's sideways travel, the pin goes loose. Seems to be on one side only and if I rotate the pin by putting a nut on the pin and turning the pin with a spanner, the movement of the pin is then loose on the opposite side of the big nut. I have read that a solution to this is to lap these in with valve grinding past but I don't have any and would like to get Minnie mobile again if I can today or tomorrow.

I haven't tried the movement with the small spring in place yet but I'm thinking it would most likely take up the slack but I'm not sure if that's the right thing to do.

Any suggestons?

Thanks Rocky

Shimming the lower joint is the same as the top one -ie without the spring to get the excess freeplay out. Fit the spring just before final tightening, which will increase the tension but not stop the pin from moving.

The pin always has slight variations in tightness as you move it inside its ball socket, making it hard to know if it is too tight or too loose.
But once everything is back on the car, the pin can't move and the ball socket only moves through a very limited range for steering and suspension travel so the same surfaces on the pin and the ball socket remain in constant contact.

I used to overtighten the ball socket so the pin would only just move by hand. Having been "corrected" I now set the pin so it is able to move easily with finger & thumb, but absolutely no movement of the pin up/down inside the ball socket.

I have lapped them in before to remove any high spots for a smoother operation

Thanks Bill. I was thinking that the pin is not likely to be in the looser part of it's travel when on the car under normal conditions so that should be ok.

Judging how firm to make the pin is a bit of a guess on my part as I haven't been able to feel one that's been setup correctly. Maybe I'm doing mine up too tight? I can move the pin fairly easy if I grip it tight and have the pin in the palm of my hand. It's too firm to move it though just using the ends of my fingers. I figured it I could move it using fingertips, it would be too loose, especially when it settles in after a few miles.

However, after reading your reply, it looks like I might have them a tad too firm.

I'll go and have another play and see how I go.

In the meantime, I've pulled the driver's side off and the top pin has the same marks as the passenger side. Pin was loose and very notchy in it's travel.

The squirrel.

If I was to try lapping them, any suggestions on a paste alternate to valve grinding paste? Metal polish perhaps?

Rocket J. Squirrel:
There are many little things that are not fully explained in manuals.
Like you, I learnt to fix things by doing it. Sometimes you win..... When it goes wrong, you know who to blame and you learn a bit more in the process.
If the RH side is also worn, it does suggest a problem with the quality of the NOS ones.
The Mini Spares ones might be better as they do seem to try and provide a product that is serviceable and they are big enough to have some control over the quality they source.

Valve grinding paste is cheap and is far coarser than metal polish but if you're tight for time, the new joints should be able to be fitted without lapping in.

William B Esquire,
The enjoyment of working on cars is doing it yourself. Easy to just to pay someone but it's much more satisfying knowing you've done it - or at least had a crack at it. Mind you, with most of the arvo spent on ball joints, I'm just about over them. . Decided to have a nice bourbon and tackle them again tomorrow.

No matter how much time I spend on one of them, I just can't get it right. Some very tight spots but the rest is good. Looks like time for some valve paste. When I was trying to fit the minispares ones last time, I couldn't buy a tin of paste for love or money where I live. All the old good mechanics have retired and only left with a few modern dealerships.

Here's a pic of Bullwinkle and I out for a cruise before the ball joints played up.

R.J.S.

"Yep! Nuthin' up ma sleeve."

Fully understand.
I've just spent 2 days trying to fit new bearings to the Hardy-Spicer type drive shafts. The universal crosses are brand new but 3mm too long to fit the yokes.
Found an old, unused SKF set of bearings that are the correct size and they will be another morning's work.

Well after toiling away in the shed for a few hours, I reckon I've finally got these little buggers sorted.
Where I ran into problems was that one set would go together not too bad while another set would give me grief no matter how many times I changed shims to try and get a reasonable consistent movement of the pin.
I didn't have any valve grinding paste so I thought I'd try some cutting compound for the paint on cars. I whacked the cordless drill onto the end of the pin and give it a whirl with spinning the pin inside the big nut. Did this just by hand with only the pin and nut - not assembled on the hub at all. It actually worked not too bad and did help. I decided that I'd do the lot while I was at it as I hadn't knocked up the lock tabs on the hub I did yesterday. After some lapping, I re-assembled the joint using the same shims and I ended up with some freeplay in the pin so needed to adjust the shims again to get right.
Both hubs are now back on Minnie and no movement when I wobble the wheel at 12 and 6 o'clock and on a test run, no clunk clunk when I come to a stop under brakes.
So all in all a successful outcome.
After I put the hubs back on (with the car back on the ground), I checked out the position of the pins and they're pretty much sitting in a central position within the big nut. As Bill B pointed out, the pin moves through a limited range and now that I've taken note of where the pins actually sit, I reckon I've wasted miles too much time trying the get the pins to have a consistent movement throughout the whole range of the nut. I'd have a real loose floppy pin on one extremity side and a tight binding one on the other. Without too much trouble I could get a good movement with the pin in the upright position as well as in a small arc from centre.

Am I on the right path with that thinking? If so, the next time I need to adjust the joints if they get a bit loose or fit new ones, the job will be much easier.

Thanks everyone for your help with this.

Rocky.