GR wrote:
Hi Phat kat
Alex you seem to have a thing about rods for $600 or there abouts its very clear you don't know what you are talking about
Graham, you
still seem to have a
thing about reading what you want to read and twisting what people are saying
and still don't know how to address someone without sounding like you're either paranoid or
wanting to start a fight.
Quote:
lets start with the rod that Lindsay and i sell we have sold over 50 sets so far and not had any fail, they have been used in high out put turbo engines Group N cars running to 8500 rpm and all we do is change the rod bolts to ARP 2000 series which is included in the price, we did our home work on the quality of the steel used and the heat treatment,the steel that the chinese was or still is using in there rods and cranks is from russia old TANKS, armoured vehicles and possibly old submarines,the steel is there equivalent to our 4140 very close to our specs,also most of the roller cams used today in race applications are made from Russian steel.
I haven't seen the rods you're selling, I know nothing about them, I was not having a go at the product you're selling, Graham. I know nothing about them or what they cost. Relax
Sorry, that's not entirely true, I was chatting with someone last night who mentioned your rods in passing and said that they have a press fit little end... Aside from that, I wouldn't be able to pick your rods out of a line up unless they had ""Graham Russell"" written all over them. And yes, Russia have always had good steel. It's reassuring that you're certain that this is what your rods are made from. Everything I posted was in loose refernce to the rods I posted in that Ebay link.
And judging by the conversations I was having via PM with people, I'm not the only one servicing the manufacturing industry who's sceptical when it comes to the quality of materials used by china
I'm not going to drop your name if you're avoiding getting involved, that's fine by me wrote:
Alex,
I'm with you on the price of those H beam rods, seems way too cheap if it's really 4340. But, who would know- the Chinese have a very laid back attitude to material specs....
Somebody here needs to do some material analysis, and perhaps a good old destructive tensile test on one, compared to say an S rod.
China (and other eastern countries) are capable of producing quality goods. I said that...
Phat Kat wrote:
these days, China, Taiwan all those countries we've all learnt to turn our noses up at are actually producing quality goods.
Quote:
If you would like to have a look in the latest FABRE flyer you will see that there are conrods there made from 4340 for Audi turbo chrysler honda mazda nissan subaru toyota for $375 with ARP2000 bolts and for anextra $254 you can get ARP 625 rod bolts,and are rated for 800 hp
They also have rods for chevs and fords made from 4340 $520 to $600 and thats for 8 rods so does this mean they are no good because the are really cheap,and they are rated for 775 hp
I just went through their entire site and price lists, I don't seem to be able to find the rods you're talking about. I don't surpose you'd mind scanning the flyer? 4340, so just the steel, for a total of 4 rods, was going to cost more than $375.00. I understand that obviously I'm paying local prices, and because we do nearly no smeltering here anymore we are going to pay more than Europe, Asia and the US.. And to privately import the steel wouldn't be worth it once tax and duty is put on it... Again, as I said in the posts I made in this thread...
Phat Kat wrote:
The good shops are usually owned and run by overseas companies in the USA and Europe, who're manufacturing in these countries because labour costs are cheaper. The good thing is that they are heavily scrutinised by their western owners, hence why the quality is better... the bad thing is that you pay more for goods out of these factories... but its only dearer compared to other asian countries, still cheaper than the west.
The other bonus is the cost of materials is cheaper overseas, so it is going to be cheaper still to produce them... the thing is that there is a lot of poor quality material doing the rounds in some of these countries,,, which is why a lot the shops producing better goods are ones employed by off shore companies that heavily scrutinise what the plants are doing.
I didn't say "It's cheap its got to be crap"... I said ...
Phat Kat wrote:
I'm always going to be cautious when presented with something that costs 1/3 what you're paying for a time tested and quality product... not to say that the part that's 1/3 the price is going to be crap, not at all. I'm just cautious.
....Because.....
Phat Kat wrote:
The particular industry that I work in, I deal with eastern manufactured production Tooling a lot of the time, I and can say with absolute confidence that a large percentage of them wouldn't know their nose from their elbow when it comes to metallurgy or tolerancing. It's not just a case of me being some sort of xenophobe, like I said in an earlier post many of these factories really are getting quite good at manufacturing quality gear. So I'm always willing to keep an open mind. But I just know from experience that you will often order something that is meant to be made of X grade material, it's little better than mild steel if you're lucky.[b]
I'm not going to try and make what I said any clearer.... I don't know how
Quote:
You must remember that these rod used in the 4 cylinder engines are rated for 200 hp per cylinder a [b]Mini making 150 hp is making 37.5 hp per cylinder, so really a mini rod made from 4340 is an over kill like the MK1 cooper S, compare them to a cheve or a holden rod you'll see what i mean.
If you want a really good steel for rods a lot of the rod manufactures are using 300M material which is far better than 4340.
That maybe, but cooper s rods don't fly to pieces at 10,000rpm when you accidently slam it in the wrong gear
and even your rods (while I've been typing this I looked them up.... is this them?
http://www.minis.com.au/minis/catalog/p ... ts_id=1108 475 grams is pretty good!) are made from 4140 according to the write up. The difference between the cost of 4140 and 4340 is negligible, and 4340 only just squeezes it out as far as mechanical properties go.... So you're saying your own rods are made from material that's over kill, and yet you chose to Have them made from this material... why? Because you're not an idiot
Phat Kat wrote:
You wouldn't want to buy conrods that were meant to be made from a material with a UTS of 1000MPa and then find out after you've written off your motor that they're made out of something that barely scrapes in at 360MPa.
4140 comes in between 850 and 1000MPa.
4340 comes in between 930 and 1080MPa.
Quote:
BY the way our rods are not made by MAXSPEEDINGRODS.
Graham Russell
Well, that's fine....
Yeah, Graham, I didn't post in this thread, or comment on the price of tea in china to try and hurl mud at you or anything you're selling... Until 5 minutes ago I didn't even know what the rods you're selling looked like or what they were worth. I'm happy to chat about all this, just like you and everyone else I find it interesting too. But can we all just keep it cool before this turns into another 15 page war?
