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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:15 pm 
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mini_fanatic wrote:
Is anyone able to confirm what type of paint 850s originally had?

The bulletins winabbey posted on page 2 don't seem to agree with the prefix stamping on the ID plates of cars?
(eg. 1/ENGLISH GREY\3 where 1 = Enamel, but bulletins mention nitro-cellulose and acrylic)

The bulletin below supercedes the one I posted on page 2. Whilst it may not really answer your question it adds a bit more factory information to the discussion.

Attachment:
G 3_67 p1.jpg
Attachment:
G 3_67 p2.jpg
Attachment:
G 3_67 p3.jpg


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:34 pm 
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Lindsay_Palmer wrote:
mini_fanatic wrote:
winabbey wrote:
The Service Bulletin mentions a couple of things of general interest:

  • The change from nitro-cellulose to acrylic paint at Morris 850 car number 4194



Just been thinking about this, I'd always thought 850s (and 60s Minis in general) were done in enamel?

From all the publications I've found, the prefix "1" for Colour on the ID plate represents 'Enamel'. I can only ever recall seeing "1" on 850s (as per the plates Morris 1100 posted), both before and after car number 4194.

I'm no way a paint expert, but I thought nitro-cellulose and acrylic paint are different to enamel? Am I missing something?

Evan


Evan, yes nitro-cellulose, enamel and acrylic are different types of paint. The resins used in each are different.

If I get chance I'll try to find how many of these original colour standards I still have at work.


I didn't get much time at work this week but I did dig out the standard for Aztec

Image

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:46 am 
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Those bulletins certainly clear it up - I'd misread those first bulletins.
The cars were originally painted with enamel, but any touch ups by dealers etc. were done in acrylic (or nitro-cellulose). Thanks Doug.

Thanks for sharing the colour standard Lindsay, brillant! I'd be interested in a photo of Orient Red and Inca Yellow if you find them.

Evan


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:30 pm 
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mini_fanatic wrote:
Those bulletins certainly clear it up - I'd misread those first bulletins.
The cars were originally painted with enamel, but any touch ups by dealers etc. were done in acrylic (or nitro-cellulose). Thanks Doug.

Thanks for sharing the colour standard Lindsay, brillant! I'd be interested in a photo of Orient Red and Inca Yellow if you find them.

Evan


Evan, I'm travelling next week but will have a look the next week. I know we have orient red, I'll have to check the yellow.

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69 cooper replica
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:30 pm 
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mini_fanatic wrote:
Is anyone able to confirm what type of paint 850s originally had?

The bulletins winabbey posted on page 2 don't seem to agree with the prefix stamping on the ID plates of cars?
(eg. 1/ENGLISH GREY\3 where 1 = Enamel, but bulletins mention nitro-cellulose and acrylic)


PM sent about the trim wild_willy, thanks


PM sent with pics of the door retaining strap


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:29 pm 
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mini_fanatic wrote:
Those bulletins certainly clear it up - I'd misread those first bulletins.
The cars were originally painted with enamel, but any touch ups by dealers etc. were done in acrylic (or nitro-cellulose). Thanks Doug.

Thanks for sharing the colour standard Lindsay, brillant! I'd be interested in a photo of Orient Red and Inca Yellow if you find them.

Evan


Evan

Have not been able to locate the Inca yellow yet but here is the red

Image

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71 cooper s replica
69 cooper replica
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68 Mini Auto


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:37 pm 
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Lindsay - can you please explain to a novice the purpose of the data on the envelope and enclosed colour card?

How would someone get the correct colour mixed today using that information?

Is a mixing formula included or is it intended the colour swatch be scanned?

Are all the 1960's and 70's BMC/Leyland Australia colours in the system?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:53 pm 
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I have a feeling that these were used as a "standard" to match the colour to.
Even mixing with a code would get variations. I assume they painted a sample and compared it to the "standard" using the highly trained Mk1 eyeball and then applying corrections till it matched perfectly.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:08 pm 
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Morris 1100 wrote:
I have a feeling that these were used as a "standard" to match the colour to.
Even mixing with a code would get variations. I assume they painted a sample and compared it to the "standard" using the highly trained Mk1 eyeball and then applying corrections till it matched perfectly.


Yes, it was explained to me (I think I have this right) that even if you mix to a code or even take a scan, the final colour match is often done by eye.

I had someone I know (who is in the auto paint supply business) scan the paint on my car so that later I could get a match for any touchups. He took a scan to start with, but then he showed me his 3 or 4 test swatches/mixes till he got an exact match. I think he then saved this final formula for the particular brand of paint he sells.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:10 pm 
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winabbey wrote:
Lindsay - can you please explain to a novice the purpose of the data on the envelope and enclosed colour card?

How would someone get the correct colour mixed today using that information?

Is a mixing formula included or is it intended the colour swatch be scanned?

Are all the 1960's and 70's BMC/Leyland Australia colours in the system?


I recently found in our archives the original manufacturing standards from when Dulux (or Berger, balm) supplied most auto manufacturers in Australia.

These pictures are of these standards. The standard is the colour sample which would have been used to check each batch of paint before the paint was supplied to the manufacturer, in this case BMC.

We now match these colours on request for customers restoring cars in our current refinish products, usually 2k or basecoat. I think from memory we did the orient red already in basecoat and we have done marine blue and a white. Sorry can't remember which.

The information on the envelope is the manufacturer, colour name (though names can change from model to model) and the full product number. This number is in the following format, first three digits ar the paint type, I.e acrylic, nitrocellulose or enamel, then the rest of the numbers identifies the colour. I would have to look what the first three digits on the red standard are as we don't make the product anymore, it has been replaced by better technology.

We do not currently use spectrophotometers for colour matching, this is done by our colour matchers. I think this is what you are referring to when you say scan the colour?

No formula is included on these colour standards, and the tinkers are different now anyway so they would be of no use.

We have almost all colour standards available, however over the last near 60 years some have gone missing, in this case we have a very large collection of the original colour chips which paint stores used to have and we match these. I have checked the standards against these colour chips and I have found them to be very accurate.

For someone wanting to get accurate colour mixed they would hav to request the colour, either from a repair shop we supply or one of our distributors. For colours we have already matched the formula will be available, if it is waiting to be matched there is up to a four week lead time depending on our workload.

I also posted some information on colour matching here some time back, if you want I can add that to this post but I think I have written too much already. Let me know if you need any further information.

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71 cooper s replica
69 cooper replica
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62 english 850
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:36 pm 
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Morris 1100 wrote:
I have a feeling that these were used as a "standard" to match the colour to.
Even mixing with a code would get variations. I assume they painted a sample and compared it to the "standard" using the highly trained Mk1 eyeball and then applying corrections till it matched perfectly.


M1100, yes this is correct.

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80 Alfa GTV (weekend toy)
86 626 Turbo (daily drive, now stolen)
71 cooper s replica
69 cooper replica
76 clubman
62 english 850
68 Mini Auto


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:40 pm 
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phillb wrote:
Morris 1100 wrote:
I have a feeling that these were used as a "standard" to match the colour to.
Even mixing with a code would get variations. I assume they painted a sample and compared it to the "standard" using the highly trained Mk1 eyeball and then applying corrections till it matched perfectly.


Yes, it was explained to me (I think I have this right) that even if you mix to a code or even take a scan, the final colour match is often done by eye.

I had someone I know (who is in the auto paint supply business) scan the paint on my car so that later I could get a match for any touchups. He took a scan to start with, but then he showed me his 3 or 4 test swatches/mixes till he got an exact match. I think he then saved this final formula for the particular brand of paint he sells.


Phill, this is usually how a colour match is done by repairers. How close the scan gets depends on how big the library is in the computer, a small library will sometimes not even get close, a big library with lots of colours similar to the target colour will get something very close or even spot on.

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Lindsay Palmer
06 Mazda SP23
80 Alfa GTV (weekend toy)
86 626 Turbo (daily drive, now stolen)
71 cooper s replica
69 cooper replica
76 clubman
62 english 850
68 Mini Auto


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:45 pm 
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Lindsay_Palmer wrote:
We do not currently use spectrophotometers for colour matching, this is done by our colour matchers. I think this is what you are referring to when you say scan the colour?
Yes, that's what I meant.

Thanks for all that information, very helpful.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:16 pm 
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Lindsay_Palmer wrote:
phillb wrote:
Morris 1100 wrote:
I have a feeling that these were used as a "standard" to match the colour to.
Even mixing with a code would get variations. I assume they painted a sample and compared it to the "standard" using the highly trained Mk1 eyeball and then applying corrections till it matched perfectly.


Yes, it was explained to me (I think I have this right) that even if you mix to a code or even take a scan, the final colour match is often done by eye.

I had someone I know (who is in the auto paint supply business) scan the paint on my car so that later I could get a match for any touchups. He took a scan to start with, but then he showed me his 3 or 4 test swatches/mixes till he got an exact match. I think he then saved this final formula for the particular brand of paint he sells.


Phill, this is usually how a colour match is done by repairers. How close the scan gets depends on how big the library is in the computer, a small library will sometimes not even get close, a big library with lots of colours similar to the target colour will get something very close or even spot on.


Ah I see, thanks ...so actually the scan finds the closest existing formula in a library of formulas, and then the rest is done by eye if needed.

Thats great that you have the original specimens. Do you have Special Burgundy?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:37 am 
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Phill, I'll have a look for the burgundy when I get a chance.

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06 Mazda SP23
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86 626 Turbo (daily drive, now stolen)
71 cooper s replica
69 cooper replica
76 clubman
62 english 850
68 Mini Auto


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