I have welded plates into my a panels where there was rust, but they are a bit warped/have low spots around the bottom hinge holes.... Ive done a panels before, by replacing the whole a panel (they were free, came with the car) Obviously not needing much bog on the a pillar. Ive also done a mini where I have patched the a pillars up like i have now, but not as warped and the and the hinges havent cracked the bog at all, The its still sound, after like 4 or 5 years...With this new one, the warping is maybe a bit worse. So I would require more bog in some spots (the lowest point is around the bottom hinge holes...So my question is: Should I stick in a big washer and bolt into the hinge holes and use a home made tool to bang it out abit? To make it nice and even with the rest of the body? Will the movement/change in the position of the metal make it prone to bend back to its original warped position after a few openings of the door? Also im scared doing this will bring the inner metal layer close to the outer layer from the hitting, making rust form in that tight spot. (there is about a can of fish oil in there anyway but still)

As for the surface rust forming on most of the bare metal parts of the car: can I put some 3m rust converter/primer (the black bottle from supercrap) onto it, and place bog directly over the top? Or is it better to rough up the metal with 40 grit and bog directly onto metal?

http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=60141 Ive read this thread but Im still wondering if i can/should/be better off putting bog over the 3m stuff

Thanks in advance for any help

You want a slide hammer... you've got the right idea with the big washer, it will spread the load from the pull out more rather than pricking it up into a small spot... a lot of people will use self tappers with slide hammers and just create a whole lot of pimples.

The more you can form the panels before bog them the better, especially where hinges are concerned, if you try and tighten anything up against a bogged panel the bog with crack and fall out or sink back,,,,, either way not a good look.

Regarding the rust converter, you always have to rough the panel with 40 grit before bogging it... if you try and lay it over a surface that you've had another chemical on it will stick "alright" but it won't last forever. If you apply bog correctly you should get 25 years out of it.

Thanks for the reply!
Yeah roughing up good solid metal with 40 grit and bogging it is. But what about the rust that looks like its cancer (brown) and/or pitting. How bad does rust have to be before you have to cut it out and weld a plate in? I generally go when it starts to look like gold leaf and/or has holes in it, but if it still has a reasonable thickness to it after grinding, I will leave it...some spots however are different,

for example I took my rear left seam cover off to weld up a small hole in the corner right near the filler hole, and the seam all along there seems like its "melted" together. I got rid of the tar from the inside and wedged open the seam abit, and sprayed fish oil into it and it came through to the other side, which is good. Obviously I wont ever to bog the seam like some people do, but how do you go about bogging onto a pitted surface like that?

something like this is a perfect indication of what i mean, maybe even a tiny bit worse than this.

Im wondering if bogging on rust proofing chemical is a good idea...how about putting on the 3m stuff, and after that 40grit, that way if there are any pits or deeper bits where the sand paper cant get into, it will be *safe*.... I have never used any other primer than the regular grey one. Ive heard theres etch primer but it cant be used on paint only on bare metal bla bla bla...I hate over analysing everything before tackling a car. I do it every time even though the results are pretty good, no rust coming out of my first one

Nah, not at all mate, I'd rather ask 50 questions than stuff something up>

Ok, order of ops..

1. Strip paint back to bare metal
2. Treat with rust convertor (that 3m one is good, I have used it with sucess, just apply it with some steel wool or scotchbrite, let it sit for 20 min, then wash off with metho)
3. Key area with 40 grit paper
4. Apply bog


If you use the rust convertor properly, it will take care of the rust.

As far as how thin can you let the metal get before replacing it.. well it depends where it is, you get away with a bit less in some places more than others... but I'd say if its become weak the sensible thing to do is patch it

Does that help?

one more question, whats the difference between the black and white bottle, in use. one has sulphuric acid and another looks creamy and dries black

They have a white bottle????

I've only ever used the black bottle, (Phosphoric acid)... I've not seen or used the white..... Normally I actually use the septone one because it has a much higher percentage of Phosphoric Acid..

Sorry i can't help you there

I think he's talking about the Permatex/Loctite one, it's white bottle with an orange lid.
I found it works better than all the rest over pitted rust, it dries off to a resin, and is paintable.
Also being gluggy it won't run much on vertical surfaces.

POR15 kit is even better, for pitted but not perforated surfaces.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

The POR15 kit is awesome. I didn't know Permatex or Loctite did one. Good info, thanks

nah nah, i bought these at the same time,

When I used rust converter I found the bottle also had a clear acrylic in it as well. Seems the idea saw to convert the rust and seal the area in one shot. after the first use I then decided to flatten back all areas after treating effectively removing much of what I put on.

Maybe the remover doesn't have the sealer in it. Either way I would block back the area prior to painting.

Got me buddy..

Could just be new packaging? Either way, 3M make pretty good stuff, I'm sure if you follow the instructions on the bottle you won't have a problem with either..

And yes, you absolutely have to wash it off... they all leave a gummy residue, the longer you leave it on, the harder it is to get off... thats why I never leave it on there any longer than 20 min and I DO NOT let it dry on the job... it makes it extremely difficult to clean off...

No bog, primer or paint will take to the surface if the acid wash isn't removed properly first... you must clean the acid/rust converter off

I believe the 3M stuff being sold now is the old C&H brand (3M bought them). They made good stuff..

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

Rust converter is a prevention more then a cure.. If you can sand it off then do it..

Also don't use 40 grit on anything on a car.. The scratches it leaves will just come back when it's all finished.. Use 80 or 120, filler sticks as long as the area is clean...

The Rust Converter and Primer is the good oil. Dries to a black finish which is paintable straight away. Finish is durable as is too - I used it to clean up a black bullbar on my Landie once - it blended in with the existing paint and I never bothered painting over it.

The other one is not much chop - less effective and you still need to prime it with another product before final paint.

i hope it doenst react badly with body filler, i just painted it onto some bare metal which was starting to rust beside some filler