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| Engine conversion questions https://ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7925 |
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| Author: | dansedgli [ Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Engine conversion questions |
Hi guys, Im going to embark on putting a daihatsu 3 cylinder EFI DOHC turbo engine into my roundnose in the near future. Ive got a few questions. How do you determine how long the driveshafts should be? Does it have to be exact to the nth mm?? My mate reckons we should weld up a frame to fit the mini on that bolts to the original mounts so that the whole conversion is easily removed and returned to standard. He has seen other cars done this way. If there is enough room to do this would there be any problem mounting the engine frame to the original mounts? What have you conversion guys done about the length of the transmission? do you mod the linkages to come out the original hole or do you make a new hole and weld up the old one? How does the mini fuel tank go with fuel pick up? Can it be modded to accept a return line okay or would I be better off with a surge tank setup? This would likely be the easiest option. Im sure Ill think of more things to ask soon. cheers dan |
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| Author: | minstar [ Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Dan, making a complete subframe that doesn't use the original Mini subframe at lease the suspension arm areas (and cone tower) requires alot of engineering and has to be pretty spot on (even slight differences between left and right hand sides could create wicked steering anomalies). As for mounting to the original mounting points this would be the best way to go. As for the trans the Starlet uses a cable change so I really can't comment on this bit. As for the EFI I would replace the lines as they won't support the increased flow. Brad put his return line in through the sender, and I am going to follow suit. Brad said he had problems with twin tanks but you might want to talk to him direct. Even with a surge tank I think you will still have to complete the fuel circuit by having a return to the main tank. Cheers, Matt. Sorry for the long answer... |
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| Author: | 13secmini [ Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I did not make my shafts i got a workshop sorry. To do the mounts using the original mini mounts would be fine as long as the engine can sit with the shafts parallel to the hubs. I think you would be better of making a frame that utilises the diahatsu mounts, i think there are 3 on them engines. You will be putting out twice as much torque as a mini motor so the engine will want to move around if not held in tight. what linkage does the diahatsu use?? cable or a rod? I got a cable on mine and it fitted ok didnt have to touch it. My mini tank has been modded for the efi return line but a surge tank is going to be fitted soon. |
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| Author: | dansedgli [ Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks guys, Im not sure what linkage the daihatsu box uses yet. I pick it up next week. 
We still have to suss out if it fits in the bay. If I cant use the original mounts then it wont be a big issue, just more work. What other problems have you guys encountered that might trip me up along the way? |
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| Author: | awdmoke [ Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:57 pm ] |
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If you are getting a whole car, you could re-use the donor in-tank fuel pump if you made a surge tank. I just made a custom tank as the engineer informed me that I had to have a pressurised tank & it was easier than modifying the moke tank. Plus there's the BLING factor 
Run a new fuel line, and use the original mini line as the return. I had planned to do this, but the original line was crappy & I had to scrap it 
If you want to get a high performance fuel pump, just buy a second hand one off a more powerful car (people use commodore 3.0L for 2.0L 4cyl, so something off a 2.0L car would be heaps for your requirements). Oh, & instead of $$$aftermarket high flow 4cyl fuel filter, I used a VL Commodore one for $14 - available anywhere
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| Author: | dansedgli [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
awdmoke wrote: If you are getting a whole car, you could re-use the donor in-tank fuel pump if you made a surge tank. I just made a custom tank as the engineer informed me that I had to have a pressurised tank & it was easier than modifying the moke tank. Plus there's the BLING factor
Run a new fuel line, and use the original mini line as the return. I had planned to do this, but the original line was crappy & I had to scrap it If you want to get a high performance fuel pump, just buy a second hand one off a more powerful car (people use commodore 3.0L for 2.0L 4cyl, so something off a 2.0L car would be heaps for your requirements). Oh, & instead of $$$aftermarket high flow 4cyl fuel filter, I used a VL Commodore one for $14 - available anywhere Thanks for the tips. A custom tank might be a decent option, even if its just for extra capacity. I wonder how a shaved fuel filler will look.  Are fuel cells legal?
Does the tank have to be converted to unleaded spec where the filler is smaller? Im not getting the whole car, but a pump will be easy, Im only expecting 150hp max from the car. Maybe 200 if I opt for nitrous to play with but I doubt that will happen, Ive been trying to get nitrous onto a car for 3 years and something else always comes up and I cant use it. Does anyone know what happens with the driveshafts? Do I just guess the measurements as close as possible then have them cut and shut together? What should I do with the clutch? The new motor is cable operated, is it easier to adapt the cable to the mini or adapt the hydro to the motor? Is your car on road AWD? It sounds like a bit of a weapon! I cant wait to get started on this project, my mates and I plan to have it in and driving as soon as possible. If we can just use the old mounting points it wont take long at all. The rest of it shouldnt be that difficult, just fiddly. All the body work and brakes and other things are going to come afterwards. |
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| Author: | minstar [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Dan if it is the 3 cyl 993 Daihatsu motor I would be pretty confident of getting it in the engine bay. When I first looked at the Starlet engine I thought "No way", but it fits. The tank doesn't need to be converted to a smaller neck by all accounts (eg. mine, brad's etc). As for the driveshafts don't get them welded together apart from being illegal they will probably snap. The guys I am getting to machine mine said to bring the car down, they will do the measuring and then put new splines on the Toyota shafts so that they fit the Mini CV's. If you can adapt your Hydraulic clutch to the cable mechanism that would obviously be better and not too difficult. Also when you mean the old mounting points do you mean the mini subframe ones or the engine? FWD Jap engines mount completely differently to their 1959 English counterparts, design for the jap mounts... The biggest pain for me was making the fuel lines, not difficult just tedious. Oh and making the frame wasn't easy either  
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| Author: | dansedgli [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I mean the old engine mounting points. My mate thinks it would be okay to use the old 2 engine mounts and the engine steady to attach the new frame to which will support the new engine mounts. Does that make sense? That sounds like the better option regarding the driveshafts. Cant have one breaking on me, I didnt realise that wasnt legal either. So far the only tricky bits will be the clutch, mounting the engine and the wiring. Im getting an EMS with it that should make wiring easy Im told compared to using the factory loom. Thanks for all the advice guys, if you think of any other problems I should prepare myself for let me know. |
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| Author: | awdmoke [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
dansedgli wrote: Are fuel cells legal?
Is your car on road AWD? It sounds like a bit of a weapon! Fuel cells are legal, but most states prohibit fill points inside the vehicles (not a problem in a Moke) Car is still months away...
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| Author: | Chris [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
minstar wrote: Dan, making a complete subframe that doesn't use the original Mini subframe at lease the suspension arm areas (and cone tower) requires alot of engineering and has to be pretty spot on (even slight differences between left and right hand sides could create wicked steering anomalies). As for mounting to the original mounting points this would be the best way to go. .
Blumin who has done a lot with front subframes told me that the differences between the left and right sides of a standard subframe can sometimes exceed 5mm in some dimensions. I guess Quality control wasn't taken to seriously then. |
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| Author: | minstar [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yeah Chris I agree with you but 5mm, isn't too bad and they did design and put them together with a jig etc and all the parts that went into them were uniform. I'm just saying to design a new subframe from scratch that uses none of the existing Mini subframe would be a pretty huge effort, but not impossible.
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| Author: | 92 [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
With my starlet conversion started with a mini subframe and cut it to fit new engine this way you keep all the original suspension and steering geometry which my engineer was worried about changing, then fabricated mounts to suit engine and gearbox. The drive shafts I turned up myself and measured the length required, by measuring the distance between the cv joints then adding the thickness of the cv spline and circlip that holds the joint on plus about 5mm on the end past circlip. This was measured with the two cv's in line , the inner cv was not fully pushed in either about 5mm before bottoming out. Hope this makes sense |
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| Author: | Besser [ Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | fuel |
The new Monaro run a specific design for fuel system and I suggest you go this way. Construct a "surge tank" that run both tanks into Connect the pump into or within on the oumo outlet run a "T" connection Off the "T" connect the return regulator and then run a very short pipe to the "surge tank" Off the other "T" connection run the fuel line up to the engine This is saves lots of return line and makes it so you dont need a "fuel rail" If your very savvy you can do the whole lot inside a tank and braze a larget outlet tube onto the tank and no one will notice. |
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| Author: | Chris [ Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: fuel |
Besser wrote: The new Monaro run a specific design for fuel system and I suggest you go this way.
Construct a "surge tank" that run both tanks into Connect the pump into or within on the oumo outlet run a "T" connection Off the "T" connect the return regulator and then run a very short pipe to the "surge tank" Off the other "T" connection run the fuel line up to the engine This is saves lots of return line and makes it so you dont need a "fuel rail" If your very savvy you can do the whole lot inside a tank and braze a larget outlet tube onto the tank and no one will notice. A good idea IF the reg was mounted at the rear of the car in its original installation. If not it will be seeing the fuel pressure without taking into account the line losses. I don't know if they are significant enough to worry about or not. If the reg was adjustable it would not be a problem. You could just wind it up until you see the desired pressure at the fuel rail at the motor |
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| Author: | dude [ Sat Jun 11, 2005 10:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hello there, I'm in the middle of a GTI conversion. Got the motor in a round nose mini, just got to do the shaft, wiring and disk brakes. Wondering if theres any interest out there in buying an unfinished project. Have all the parts needed, |
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