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BMW head and Moke update
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Author:  moke007 [ Sat May 21, 2005 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  BMW head and Moke update
Hi All,

I have just put a few updates up on Mark's BMW head conversion and my moke progress.

The head is comming along well with tha cam belt set up and the end plate in. Sorry the photos aren't great. It was dark when I took them so had to use the flash. There are larger pictures in the photos section of the web page.

I have got the new floor pans into the Moke with out too much trouble... besides my trip to hospital with Zinc Oxide poisoning. No body told me to grind the gal of first :-) well you live and learn. Don't look to close at my brazing work....

www.minimod.info

cheers
Jim

Image
Author:  Metalfab_101 [ Sun May 22, 2005 4:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BMW head and Moke update
moke007 wrote:
Hi All,
I have just put a few updates up on Mark's BMW head conversion and my moke progress.

Thanks for the update, looks like you guys are making some progress 8)

moke007 wrote:
The head is comming along well with tha cam belt set up and the end plate in.

What pulleys are you guys using to drive the cams? What pulley are you using for the crank? Also, can you set me straight on something. My thinking leads me to believe that the cam pulleys and crank pulley need to be matched in the correct ratio to keep the cams and crank synchronised in the same positions relative to each other. If that ratio is incorrect it's just not gonna work. So if you use the cam pulleys and crank pulley from the same vehicle it should work. Yeah?

moke007 wrote:
I have got the new floor pans into the Moke with out too much trouble... besides my trip to hospital with Zinc Oxide poisoning. No body told me to grind the gal of first :-) well you live and learn.

Metal fume fever! Poor bugger, have a lie down and a drink of milk :oops:

moke007 wrote:
Don't look to close at my brazing work....

If you'd taken some close ups we would have :wink: Did you get much warping with the oxy? Do the floor pans "pop" in & out when you put weight on them? I did a repair to the floor of my Suzuki and the floor pops a bit, because the panel is flat, no rigidity in it.

Anyway, thumbs up guys & keep the updates coming 8)
Author:  gafmo [ Sun May 22, 2005 7:14 am ]
Post subject: 
That look Mean....and love the Idea...are you doing that to a Mk2 Cooper S Motor

Keep us updated :wink:
Author:  moke007 [ Sun May 22, 2005 8:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BMW head and Moke update
Quote:
What pulleys are you guys using to drive the cams? What pulley are you using for the crank? Also, can you set me straight on something. My thinking leads me to believe that the cam pulleys and crank pulley need to be matched in the correct ratio to keep the cams and crank synchronised in the same positions relative to each other. If that ratio is incorrect it's just not gonna work. So if you use the cam pulleys and crank pulley from the same vehicle it should work. Yeah?


Hmmm, yes you are right.... I will ask Mark how he did that and get back to you. I am a hack when it comes to these sort of things :oops: Mark is the cluey one, I just put what info I can on the web page. I think the pulleys came of a Suzuki Swift but I will check that too.

Quote:
If you'd taken some close ups we would have :wink: Did you get much warping with the oxy? Do the floor pans "pop" in & out when you put weight on them? I did a repair to the floor of my Suzuki and the floor pops a bit, because the panel is flat, no rigidity in it.


It was delibrate that there were no close ups :-) I did get a bit of warping on the rear pans where I went fairly high up on the sides. I had never brazed before and in hindsight I think I was putting heaps to much heat into it. Anyway I will know better next time. The floor does pop in and out a bit in places but after I am finished doining the sils I plan to shrink the floor a bit to reduce that problem.
Author:  moke007 [ Sun May 22, 2005 8:29 am ]
Post subject: 
gafmo wrote:
That look Mean....and love the Idea...are you doing that to a Mk2 Cooper S Motor


Yep! He used the Cooper S as he had read somewhere that they have thicker side walls but after doing some checking he recons there is no difference, other than normal variations that you will get from casting and drilling blocks.
Author:  Metalfab_101 [ Sun May 22, 2005 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BMW head and Moke update
moke007 wrote:
Quote:
What pulleys are you guys using to drive the cams? What pulley are you using for the crank? Also, can you set me straight on something. My thinking leads me to believe that the cam pulleys and crank pulley need to be matched in the correct ratio to keep the cams and crank synchronised in the same positions relative to each other. If that ratio is incorrect it's just not gonna work. So if you use the cam pulleys and crank pulley from the same vehicle it should work. Yeah?


Hmmm, yes you are right.... I will ask Mark how he did that and get back to you. I am a hack when it comes to these sort of things :oops: Mark is the cluey one, I just put what info I can on the web page. I think the pulleys came of a Suzuki Swift but I will check that too.

That'd be good if you could, though I bet a 6-pack of jim beam & colas that Matt will chime in and set me straight :lol: Swift would be good gear to use (I am familiar with Suzuki stuff) as they're pretty easy to get and you can get vernier pulleys too 8)

moke007 wrote:
I had never brazed before and in hindsight I think I was putting heaps to much heat into it.

Dude! MIG is where it's at for that kinda work. Even if you're half decent at oxy welding it's more difficult to keep the heat to a level that wont warp the metal. For a first timer i'd say you did pretty well 8)
Author:  fuzzy-hair-man [ Mon May 23, 2005 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BMW head and Moke update
moke007 wrote:
Hmmm, yes you are right.... I will ask Mark how he did that and get back to you. I am a hack when it comes to these sort of things :oops: Mark is the cluey one, I just put what info I can on the web page. I think the pulleys came of a Suzuki Swift but I will check that too.


Correct me if I am wrong but basicly as far as I know the crank needs to turn 4 times to every revolution of the cam shafts. Engine is a four stroke engine after all :wink:

So as long as the pulleys have a 4:1 ratio you will be right and can grab the pulleys of anything that will fit

The third big pulley is attached to the old mini cam the drive from the crankshaft is below this, incase you were wondering.

I was going to ask before how does it go closing the bonnet on one of these the guy that did the K1 conversion on a 850 said he didn't have very much clearance and a 1275 block is taller than an 850 block right?
Author:  9YaTaH [ Mon May 23, 2005 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Thick Web
moke007 wrote:
gafmo wrote:
That look Mean....and love the Idea...are you doing that to a Mk2 Cooper S Motor


Yep! He used the Cooper S as he had read somewhere that they have thicker side walls but after doing some checking he recons there is no difference, other than normal variations that you will get from casting and drilling blocks.


Not True....later Cooper S blocks had thickened webs...you can see the difference at the front of the engine to gearbox join.
Author:  drmini in aust [ Mon May 23, 2005 2:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
Crank to cam pulley ratio is 2:1.
ie. crank turns twice for 1 cam revolution.
So the cam gears have 2x as many teeth as the crank gear does. 8)
Author:  fuzzy-hair-man [ Mon May 23, 2005 2:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
drmini in aust wrote:
Crank to cam pulley ratio is 2:1.
ie. crank turns twice for 1 cam revolution.
So the cam gears have 2x as many teeth as the crank gear does. 8)


Oppps :oops: :oops: :oops: Two strokes per revolution of the crank that's right.
I was sitting here thinking there are 4 strokes therefore four revolutions of the crank didn't think enough did I :oops: :oops:

Silly me :roll: Thanks Kev
Author:  Metalfab_101 [ Mon May 23, 2005 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BMW head and Moke update
fuzzy-hair-man wrote:
So as long as the pulleys have a 4:1 ratio you will be right and can grab the pulleys of anything that will fit


My point was that you're best off getting the cam pulleys AND crank pulley off the same vehicle to ensure that you have the correct ratio. Sure you could muck around getting crank pulley from here and cam pulleys from there but why bother. Get all the pulleys from the one engine and you know it's going to work OK. Then again measuring them isn't that hard. I know what I would do though. :D

fuzzy-hair-man wrote:
I was going to ask before how does it go closing the bonnet on one of these the guy that did the K1 conversion on a 850 said he didn't have very much clearance and a 1275 block is taller than an 850 block right?


One way might be to drop the engine down a bit. Good for centre of gravity, but could cause some ground clearance and driveshaft angle problems. Easiest way would probably be a power bulge.

Sorry, easiest way would be get rid of the bonnet altogether :lol: Simplest legal way would be power bulge. hehe
Author:  Wolfman [ Mon May 23, 2005 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BMW head and Moke update
moke007 wrote:
besides my trip to hospital with Zinc Oxide poisoning. No body told me to grind the gal of first :-) well you live and learn.
cheers
Jim



Another tip from an old welder (besides grinding the gal for the area to be welded) is to drink plenty of milk, when doing welding on gal we used to be supplied milk by the factory 8)
Author:  min13k [ Mon May 23, 2005 8:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
i'm perty handy with oxy i used to do alot of it when my dad was alive he said to me when ya can weld with oxy i'll let ya play with the arc welder .... but he was old school was a ground engineer with dehavilan .... pre hawker at bankstown areodrome
makka
Author:  Metalfab_101 [ Mon May 23, 2005 9:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
min13k wrote:
i'm perty handy with oxy i used to do alot of it when my dad was alive he said to me when ya can weld with oxy i'll let ya play with the arc welder .... but he was old school was a ground engineer with dehavilan .... pre hawker at bankstown areodrome
makka


If u can oxy well you should be able to TIG like a champ! 8)

My oxy is pretty average, and my TIG ain't much better!!! :lol:

Sure is fun to burn holes in stuff though. And the "screeee!!! screeee!!!" of the grinder!! hehehe, love to make those sparks fly... hehe :)
Author:  Al Munday [ Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Mk 2 blocks
The main thing with a Mk2 block is the external vertical rib next to the dipstick hole.This is directly in line with the centre main.(for strength!) Also it is solid below the centre main ,compared to the Mk1 which has a hole. Mk2 has thick bottom flange as well. Dont know about wall thickness.
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