ausmini :: View topic - wheres the spark???UPDATED SHES ALIVE!!!

g'day guys, I'm trying to awaken my 850 from its 10yr sleep and im having a lil trouble getting spark to the cylinders,

i've got the car cranking on the starter, fitted new plugs,points,condensor and rotor button but i haven't got any running action yet. i seem to have power at the positive side of the coil and thats where it appears to stop ie. the dizzy isnt getting/making it.

ive set the points up at the correct gap along with the plugs but when i try to set the timing statically i can't get any spark at the points or plugs.

anyone got any ideas on where it might have stopped? or common areas for the spark to disappear before it gets to the dizzy? any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated.

also just out of curiousity what does the little toggle switch on the right hand side of the 850 speedo housing used for?

thanks pete

acutally, easier way and safe to test it, try the sparkplug-against-the-block test, on all 4 plugs... the possibility of all the leads being dead are so remote!

Try that, and if none get spark, it's the dizzy.

if at least one gets spark, it might be either a lead, or the dizzy still.... swap leads around and see what you get.

also just out of curiousity what does the little toggle switch on the right hand side of the 850 speedo housing used for?

thanks pete

Author:	850pete [ Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:	wheres the spark???UPDATED SHES ALIVE!!!
g'day guys, I'm trying to awaken my 850 from its 10yr sleep and im having a lil trouble getting spark to the cylinders, i've got the car cranking on the starter, fitted new plugs,points,condensor and rotor button but i haven't got any running action yet. i seem to have power at the positive side of the coil and thats where it appears to stop ie. the dizzy isnt getting/making it. ive set the points up at the correct gap along with the plugs but when i try to set the timing statically i can't get any spark at the points or plugs. anyone got any ideas on where it might have stopped? or common areas for the spark to disappear before it gets to the dizzy? any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated. also just out of curiousity what does the little toggle switch on the right hand side of the 850 speedo housing used for? thanks pete

Author:	Gadgets mini [ Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:
when you set the static timing up does the rotor on the dizzy line up with the correct cylinder that is at TDC you could be 180Deg out?? are your fuses good they may look ok but could of corroded inside replace them to be sure their cheap enough. swap a spark plug lead with your coil lead and see if that helps. is there a kill switch fitted? check how many wires you should have running to each side of the coil, is the coil getting hot? the little graphite bit inside the dizzy cap is there isnt it double check that the points are opening and closing when turning the motor over the above are problems that i have encountered over the years hope it helps Cheers

Author:	9YaTaH [ Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: wheres the spark???
850pete wrote: g'day guys, I'm trying to awaken my 850 from its 10yr sleep and im having a lil trouble getting spark to the cylinders, i've got the car cranking on the starter, fitted new plugs,points,condensor and rotor button but i haven't got any running action yet. i seem to have power at the positive side of the coil and thats where it appears to stop ie. the dizzy isnt getting/making it. ive set the points up at the correct gap along with the plugs but when i try to set the timing statically i can't get any spark at the points or plugs. anyone got any ideas on where it might have stopped? or common areas for the spark to disappear before it gets to the dizzy? any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated. also just out of curiousity what does the little toggle switch on the right hand side of the 850 speedo housing used for? thanks pete Have you checked the condition of the distributor cap? Spark Plug leads and their connections? Look inside the cap very closely for cracks or evidence of arcing..or tracking...make sure it is clean and dry. Measure the resistence of the leads...but if they are carbon and very old it is probably not worth keping them. are the plugs wet with fuel after you have tried cranking....fuel is getting there! Is it new fuel!!....ten year old juice may not want to fire !!

Author:	miniron [ Sat Apr 30, 2005 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:
With the points open check to see if you have 12 volts on both sides of the coil. If not dodgy coil, condensor or points. I had a similar problem recently with a new set of genuine Lucas points- the one piece type. The pivot tube on these is peened over at the top to keep the moving block in place. In my case the peened over top part was shorting out to the live side spring part of the points but not all the time. Worth a try. Regards RonR

Author:	drmini in aust [ Sat Apr 30, 2005 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:
Resistor plug leads are just carbonised string.. Every Mini I've bought that was parked over 5 years needed new plug leads. That includes the one from the coil... I'd either buy/borrow a set, or put a meter on them. Over 8K ohms resistance, and they are definite bin fodder.

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Author:	9YaTaH [ Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Old Chestnut
POINTS...did you clean them with Metho or similar before you put them in??? Can have a preservative oil film on them which burns and cakes the surface quick smart.....

Author:	Chris [ Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: wheres the spark???
850pete wrote: g'day guys, I'm trying to awaken my 850 from its 10yr sleep and im having a lil trouble getting spark to the cylinders, i've got the car cranking on the starter, fitted new plugs,points,condensor and rotor button but i haven't got any running action yet. i seem to have power at the positive side of the coil and thats where it appears to stop ie. the dizzy isnt getting/making it. Have you installed the points correctly so that they are not insulated from the base plate? Put a meter across the points and base plate to check that they are earthing correctly if you have one.

Author:	Soc [ Sun May 01, 2005 1:23 am ]
Post subject:
Check for actual spark at the plug! Remove sparkplug, attach lead to it, and rest it against the engineblock, so the pointy end is approx 2mm from the block itself, get someone to turn the car over, and watch for a spark. Then you'll see if your acutally getting a spark with the plug. If not, try another plug, or lead!

Author:	850pete [ Sun May 01, 2005 10:24 am ]
Post subject:	spark
thanks for the advice guys i think i might pick up a new set of plug leads regardless, the ignition coil is getting hot. when ive held the plug lead with a spare plug in it near the block i havent got any spark jumping at all. i'll try the things mentioned and see how i go, i really wanna get her running before i disassemble it for restoration. thanks pete

Author:	Soc [ Sun May 01, 2005 10:43 am ]
Post subject:
This is a very bodgy way, BUUUUUT. Easy and bodgy way to test the lead to see if that's the issue, remove the lead, and replace it with a length of fairly hardcore wire if you have some around. rest it against the block, and turn the car over. If your now getting spark, then the leads are the issue. if your not, the it'll be the dizzy. acutally, easier way and safe to test it, try the sparkplug-against-the-block test, on all 4 plugs... the possibility of all the leads being dead are so remote! Try that, and if none get spark, it's the dizzy. if at least one gets spark, it might be either a lead, or the dizzy still.... swap leads around and see what you get.

Author:	Chris [ Sun May 01, 2005 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:
Soc wrote: acutally, easier way and safe to test it, try the sparkplug-against-the-block test, on all 4 plugs... the possibility of all the leads being dead are so remote! Try that, and if none get spark, it's the dizzy. if at least one gets spark, it might be either a lead, or the dizzy still.... swap leads around and see what you get. Why would he test at the spark plugs when there is no spark at the points? The problem is either dissy or coil related. The coil is gettin power so it only leaves a limited number of things.

Author:	miniron [ Mon May 02, 2005 11:56 am ]
Post subject:
The fact that the coil is getting hot means there is current flowing through the coil ALL the time. There is a short circuit in the wiring/ distibutor allowing current to flow continuously. You won't get any spark until the current flow changes - Lenz's Law for you electrical people! Check the wiring and the distributor for shorts or faulty components. Regards RonR

Author:	850pete [ Mon May 02, 2005 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:	spark
so would i be better off swapping another dizzy over to see if thats the trouble or would i be better off trying to find the trouble with this one? like i said ive fitted new points,condensor and rotor to the original dizzy and it seems to rotate fine when i turn the motor over by hand. might have to get the missus to give me a hand with cranking the starter button while i watch for spark with the dizzy cap off. (i usually only get a chance to work on the bugger when she's not home )

Author:	Chris [ Mon May 02, 2005 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:
I don't think the idea of checking spark at the points is going to get you anywhere as it obviously has none. Check why it has none. As I said before check the points installation. Has it got power to the points? If it has power to the points and they are not sparking there is your answer. If the points are sparking why isn't it triggering the coil? Broken wire? Is it the correct rotor?

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Author:	Chris [ Mon May 02, 2005 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: wheres the spark???
850pete wrote: also just out of curiousity what does the little toggle switch on the right hand side of the 850 speedo housing used for? thanks pete Instrument light? or is it a kill switch? Haven't been in an 850 since they wer new.