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Roundnose conversions?
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Author:  dansedgli [ Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Roundnose conversions?
Im bored at work, I got to thinking about all the engine conversions that I have seen and hardly any use the roundnose mini without an extended flipfront.

Are there any engines which fit in the roundnose without extending the front end?

Pics??

Has anyone here considered a rear wheel drive motorbike engine conversion? Would it be possible to get Roadworthy in australia?

I wouldnt mind getting my hands on a crappy shell and trying to build a go kart with a 1 litre bike engine inside a mini.
Author:  fuzzy-hair-man [ Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
There are a lot of rear front or mid engined motorbike convertions done in the UK the most popular seems to be using the yamaha R1.

Interestingly enough I read that the rear wheel drive R1 mini would beat the front wheel drive in a straight line (no surpises) but the rear wheel drive would not handle as well (maybe a bit surprising) as the front wheel drive.

Have a look at:
http://www.16vminiclub.com

There are lots of other engine conversions there too, I don't know how many are roundnoses
Author:  ausminis4u [ Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
pm twincammini, (chris) he has a swift powered standard(ish) steel fronted mini, looks the goods aswell:D
Author:  GtiMini [ Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Roundnose conversions?
dansedgli wrote:
Im bored at work, I got to thinking about all the engine conversions that I have seen and hardly any use the roundnose mini without an extended flipfront.

Are there any engines which fit in the roundnose without extending the front end?

Pics??



Roundnose Swift conversion is possible and so is a Starlet 1300. The Starlet engine is physically smaller and could be easier to fit if you were starting from scratch.

Here are some pics of my latest project. http://www.16vminiclub.com/gallery/index.php?cat=10293 My aim with this one was a degree better refinement and simplicity. It's working well but the space I'm missing from the Clubman makes the degree of difficulty much greater.

I've measured up the Toyota Starlet engine and it would be an excellent choice. They are also much more easily available than the GTi engine. The Starlet engine only produces 65Kw as opposed to the GTi's 74Kw but that wouldn't be very hard to make up.
Author:  minstar [ Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:54 am ]
Post subject: 
Con are you sure about the Starlet engine being a smaller engine than the GTI Engine, especially if you take the gearbox aswell :?:
Author:  13secmini [ Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
i think con means the 4efe standard aussie starlet motor?? Even so the 4efe isnt any smaller then my 4efte, both same dimensions i think, and the gearbox on mine is massive compared to a suzuki GTi box.
Author:  GtiMini [ Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Overall the length of the 2 engines are about the same. But the Starlet 4EFE (not the turbo engine) is marginally narrower than the GTi engine. I have one of each and I can measure them again to give you the exact numbers but from memory the depth from inlet manifold to exhaust manifold is less on the 4EFE. For each engine you will have to move the alt so I've left that out of the equation. The head on the Gti engine is much wider and that puts the front cam gear forward close to water channel if you want equal length drive shafts. The 4EFE looks like it can be set back a little more.

As far as the gearbox goes I think one critical measurement is the distance from the centre of the driveshaft to the back of the gearbox.Thats where it could foul the frame. I haven't measured that yet. But yes, overall the gearbox on the Starlet does look bigger.

So, the GTi engine fits in the roundnose and you can get your required clearances but its damm tight and there are some compromises. e.g. the engine has to be stood more upright and that alters things like oil levels, pickups and return flows, and compromised alternator location. These problems can be solved but add complexity.

I'm looking at the slightly narrower 4EFE engine and wondering if it could fit better because it is more upright, there could be space for the alt at the front, the inlet takes air from the gearbox side possibly releiving the brake MC problem, and there will be more clearance around the water channel. Mind you, I haven't done it yet.
Author:  GtiMini [ Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Okay here are the measurements. Now remember I didn't use calipers or anything too precise I just used a tape measure and both engines are still in cars.
.....................................................4E-FE........................ G13B Mk1 (MK2 has wider inlet manifold)
Overall length.............................. 840.............................810
Width incl manifolds ...................480.............................530 (No heat shields)
Height sump to top of rocker c....660............................620
Engine only Length .....................440............................460
Gearbox length ...........................400............................350
Gearbox width (very rough) .......450...........................430
Width of head at widest ..............240...........................300

So the 4E -FE package is narrower but longer and taller, however, the engine alone is narrower and shorter but the gearbox is larger.
If we could put the Gti gearbox on the Toyota engine..... Sorry, I'm getting carried away now.

Some other interesting observations, the 4E-FE block is iron whereas the G13B is all alloy. I wonder what the weight difference is. The 4E-FE has unequal length drive shafts. I wonder if torque steer is a problem with bigger HP.

Matt, Brad, comments?
Author:  minstar [ Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Torque Steet etc
Con, Brad wound up his boost and while it spun wheels in 2nd and third he said torque steer wasnt a prob. Still better he describe it than me. Yeah I notice the block was iron when I was degreasing it. I think Brad said the Starlet GT motor + gearbox weighs 118kg which is still an improvement over the 156kg for the A series. Do you know how much the GTI engine and gearbox weighs probably even less I woudl imagine. Also I PM you about the dimensions.

Cheers

Matt
Author:  GtiMini [ Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:00 am ]
Post subject: 
Torque steer in my Turbo Clubman was a nightmare. It all came down to geometry, tortional rigidity and patheticly weak mini tie bars that were flexing. Still with boost up to about 20psi and a tight LSD fitted you had to be alert or it would toss you into the bushes. Typical high HP FWD car.

My roundnose mini has no turbo (yet) and has absolutely no sign of torgue steer. Some may say torgue is needed before torque steer happens but I put a lot of time and effort in engine positioning, alignment and engine mount composition.

The Gti engine package weighs in at 90Kg so 28Kg extra for a cast iron block and bigger gearbox. Hmmmm interesting.
Author:  dansedgli [ Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:41 am ]
Post subject: 
crap that is a light engine. I think if I ever go through with a conversion ill just look into a gti engine as it has been done before.

How quick is it non turbo in the mini?
Author:  GtiMini [ Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
dansedgli wrote:
crap that is a light engine. I think if I ever go through with a conversion ill just look into a gti engine as it has been done before.

How quick is it non turbo in the mini?


I haven't put it down the 1/4 mile. It feels quick but best of all the low and mid range torque for the weight of the vehicle makes it feel great. 5th gear up a hill at 1500rpm and it pulls strongly. Nice.

If you really want a lite engine put in a 50Kg Yamaha R1. Who needs torque when it revs to 12000 and produces 152bhp.

Shouldn't you be working? :wink:
Author:  dansedgli [ Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Nope still bored!

An R1 engine would be nice. Any ideas how to mount one so its front wheel drive? I wouldnt have to cut up the body then.

I would love a rear wheel drive one but dont really want to risk cutting my back seats out if it doesnt work out. Maybe when I get more money and can afford a practise mini. :idea:
Author:  fuzzy-hair-man [ Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Have a look on the 16 valve mini forum there were a fair few people there looking to do this conversion or who already had. There was even mention of a couple of places that would supply engine, front subframe and a special gearbox (with a reverse). As you could imagine all this was rather expensive but might be still worth a look. :wink:

Oh and most of this was in the UK so after all that you would still have to get it out here :(
Author:  GtiMini [ Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
There is rumour of a mini getting around Brisbane with a Turbo charged Hayabusa engine FWD. I've been trying to track it down. Those engines can produce up to 300Hp.

Here's message from Turbovan on the from the 16Vminiclub

Quote:
just had to put out a video for you.
heres a friend of mine with a hayabusa engined mini on the road
18 mb! http://www.mini.brubak.no/minibusa.mpeg
for those of you not understanding the norwegian text; the throttlewire broke and later the clutch, but still happy

enjoy

Tony


I'll post that to the video section too.
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