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Coil overs- You like, you buy??
https://ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=29438		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Mokesta [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Coil overs- You like, you buy??
Has anyone actually got a set of front or rear (or both) coil overs installed in their car? I'd like to know what you think about:

(1) The spring rate (probably linear as opposed to rubber cones). So, how's it affect the ride/handling?

(2) The longevity of the mounts. The car isn't designed for the forces input at those points so I'm keen to know how they survive with the brackets and fittings sold in the kits. If the shell is abre metal, what reinforcing would you recommend in the mounting areas?

(3) The longevity of the rear units with the offset upper and lower mounts. They are offset so the coil-over fits in a space only big enough for a standard shockie. I'm guessing that these offset mounts put a bending moment into the shaft that it was never designed for. So, how well do they survive? I'm considering enlarging the turrets to fit standard coil-overs to the rear but that may affect the fitment of the fuel tanks.

(4) Which of the multiple brands available are good, bad or just shite? I've heard bad things about some of the UK brands when used on Westfield kit cars. Like leaking and rapid wear after only 5,000 km.

I like the idea of rear coilovers so I can discard more than 1/2 of the rear subframe. I like the idea of front coil-overs because it would free up valuable engine bay space for items like water pumps etc. on engine conversion cars.

M
Author:  HPDesign [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:42 pm ]
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I have heard very little about them overall. However I have been told that the significantly stiffen up the suspension. My thoughts would be why mess with something that works so well right out of the bag. However if room is a concern then I would only fit the soft ones as the hard ones have been described to me as "hard as frikin rocks"

and I would see them as more linear as well, but progressive rate suspension has it's advantages, as it only firms up as it's really needed

I would not consider a full re-design of the rear shocks. Major alterations to subfames will end you up in trouble with rego and legalities and may weaken the rear structurally

don't buy a coilover that doesn't have a dust seal and a dust boot, they won't last long on the road
Author:  mini bug [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:59 pm ]
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I have had front and rear coil overs fitted to my mini for around 3 years before I sold them.
The best made coil overs are the AVO type then GAZ and the worst are the Spax type.
How do they ride , well they are good on a road with no cracks , bumps or pot holes...
When fitting them to the rear it WILL need a bump stop kit fitted to save the car body from the big bumps.The rear top bushs will wear quickly and need to be replaced at 800km or so.The rear offset upper mounts are very strong and there is no way it will bend the shaft on the shock.
The front top mounts can be welded onto the body to reinforce them ,no real need to do this unless you are going on dirt roads or have large pot holes where you drive.The rear body top shock mounts can be reinforced by welding around the mount as well.
I never had leaking shocks or could tell if the shocks had any wear after 5000km(bushes had wear thats it.)Must be all the salt on the roads and rain in the UK that makes them leak.
The springs that come with most of the coil overs kits are sh#t and will need to be replaced with AVO race type springs from Avonbar -$$$.
I'm back to the rubber springs and loving it.
Author:  mad-mk1 [ Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:43 am ]
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ive been told by a reputable source no go, waste of money
Author:  Mini Mad [ Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:28 am ]
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I would like to get more information out there on this as it needs to be tested. It's all hearsay at the moment and personal opinion and for that reason i went for the rubber cones, bilstein shocks and adjustable arms which is tried and true. I don't think many really have them and have used them properly here on the track or daily use and commented first hand.
Author:  JC [ Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Coil overs- You like, you buy??
Mokesta wrote:
I like the idea of front coil-overs because it would free up valuable engine bay space for items like water pumps etc. on engine conversion cars.


Mark,

Not looking to distract the thread from its purpose but ff that is the only reason I would ask your engineer if he is comfortable with you modifying the towers as Tricky's was adament about not touching them.

As you were.

JC
Author:  sports850 [ Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:35 am ]
Post subject: 
OK , I'm a little confused here , are you talking the shocks with springs around the outside that you use with the rubber cones to stiffen the suspension up , or shocks with beefier springs that you ise instead of the rubber cones ? I've known people who used the ones that you use with the rubber cones and they liked them as it gave a lot more adjustibility but they were race mini's . If they are something to use instead of the rubber cones you'd need to do some serious reinforcing to the body where the shocks mount (the race mini's had their shock mounts reinforced anyway ) .
Author:  Mokesta [ Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:09 am ]
Post subject: 
The coil-over shock units I'm referring to are like this:

Image
GAZ

Image
Penske

There are a few sizes of spring but they are common across many manufacturers. Springs are available in 2" length increments from 5" to 14" and 25 pound increments from about 200 pound (pounds per inch rate) to 1000 pound. Shock units have spring seats on height adjustable platforms for corner weighting and ride height adjustment.

Manufacturers include:
Kemppi, GAZ, SPAX, Penske, Eibach, Koni, Bilstein, Whiteline, Tein, AVO, Lovells, Ohlins and Moton.

So you see there are very many options available to select the right rate and damping. It is the installation and required reinforcement I have reservations about (and the cost).

JC, I would only consider using the turret space if I was going for a completely custom fabbed front subframe, not a modified original frame.

M
Author:  JC [ Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:09 am ]
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I would say wait for Tricky to run his set up and see if he can get it to handle right.
Author:  mad-mk1 [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:46 am ]
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i was told thetre not worth it...

what are thy worth ?
Author:  Mokesta [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
There is a lot of hearsay around like that but maybe the person who tried them was using the wrong spring rate, wrong damper settings or had installed them to unsatisfactory mounts??

I'd really like to know what people have run, what were the good & bad points and what brands (at the reasonable end of the price range) are good.

The cost varies hugely. These devices are quite universal and can be had for about $300 a corner. The Penske ones above could be over $2500 per corner plus springs, easily.

The ones sold for fitment at the rear of minis have offset upper and lower mounts so they'll fit. This limits the brands available and increases cost. If the rear towers are enlarged and fitted with cross-bolt top mount, virtually any brand could be used.

So, I'm sure that more than one person on Ausmini has given these a go. What's the verdict and why?

M
Author:  willy [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
What are you trying to acheive?

Even the quickest Minis are still running rubber cone suspension and shock absorbers
Author:  sports850 [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:58 pm ]
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The race mini I mentioned used something like the top photo , but with less adjustment (we're talking 10 or so years ago here ) , basically it meant the mini was incredibly stiff and had very little suspension movement , perfect for a smooth track but almost uncontrollable on bumps .
Author:  cush [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
you can buy a progressive rate rubber cone from minispares in Englandistan...
Author:  Mini Mad [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:18 pm ]
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all rubber cones are progressive rate?
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