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Q's RE: Bottom End for Injected Turbo Proposal
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Author:  rampage101 [ Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Q's RE: Bottom End for Injected Turbo Proposal
Well, I've rung Ken Elder, already emailed him once for some info, so I'm really serious about this 8 port injected setup.

Proposal so far:
To build an 8 port turbo injected A-series to go in my deluxe once its on the road (motor might be later on).
Parts list so far (shopping list anyway :D )
1100 Engine (10YCTAH, not 1275 varierty, already have 2 + a siezed 998)
Elder 8 Port - $3200
Megasquirt ECU - $247 US (Prebuild as I cbf soldering it together)
40mm Throttle bodies (x4)

Now, as yet I'm still not sure on what turbo, but I might have a 150hp garret coming up, virtually brand new.

My questions so far:
Pistons, would a set of GR pistons be suitable for forced induction? What sort of C/R would I be looking for 7? 7.5? I will be running proabably around 15psi of boost, but I want reliability.

Gearbox, not sure what either of my boxes are like, neither have ever been run in my possesion. What sort of mods/definate replacements would I be looking at.

I'm hoping to have the shell done sometime this year, preferably before fathers day, as I want to enter in our local car show (2nd year running this year) as unfinished project.

Suggestions/comments?
Author:  slinkey inc [ Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Why not a 1275? Extra cc's - Extra power?
Author:  rampage101 [ Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Agreed, would probably be alot better, but:
- I already have 2 1100's and a siezed 998
- Despite financing a lot of the build, I'd rather save some money :shock:
- Why not see how well they will go
- I've just read DrMini has had 1100's out to .140, so plenty of thick meat.
Author:  drmini in aust [ Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'd find a 1098 crank that's still standard size, crack test it, then grind to -.010" and balance it.
re the pistons, if you are going to rev it past 7000 I'd consider using teflon buttons instead of circlips, it makes a mess of the bore when they break or come out.. :evil:
I know of a few 1098 turbos that run Hypatec pistons, they seem OK for road use.
Author:  Lillee [ Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:45 am ]
Post subject: 
$3200 for elder 8 port - Is that a bare head? how much for complete?
Author:  rampage101 [ Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
thats for:
# 1 x Heat treated (AA603)Aluminium head casting including including valve guides and hardened seats.
# 4 x 36mm gas flowed inlet valves
# 4 x 30mm gas flowed exhaust valves
# 8 x valve spring seat washers
# 8 x valve spring retainers
# 16 x valve collets (Cooper S)
# 1 x set of competition double valve springs (95-100 lbs on seat pressure)
# 1 x set of heat treated extended head studs

You use your own rocker setup as it bolts straight on, so it uses standard cam's etc. Only other extra's are exhaust, which because I'm going turbo I've gotta go custom anyway.
Author:  JC [ Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think that is pretty good value. Have you started a "How do I build an indestructable gearbox/diff thread"?
Author:  pristic [ Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
rampage101 wrote:
thats for:
# 1 x Heat treated (AA603)Aluminium head casting including including valve guides and hardened seats.
# 4 x 36mm gas flowed inlet valves
# 4 x 30mm gas flowed exhaust valves
# 8 x valve spring seat washers
# 8 x valve spring retainers
# 16 x valve collets (Cooper S)
# 1 x set of competition double valve springs (95-100 lbs on seat pressure)
# 1 x set of heat treated extended head studs

You use your own rocker setup as it bolts straight on, so it uses standard cam's etc. Only other extra's are exhaust, which because I'm going turbo I've gotta go custom anyway.


Add a bit more to your list though, your fooling yourself if you think an Elder 8 port will owe you $3200... yeah, the head will but you need the headers, intake, etc... I spoke to Ken about 2 months ago to help him out with a few things... and your looking at $4500 odd to complete it.

On the 1100 vs 1275 side of things... I think you would be making a mistake.
No one builds an injected turbo mini for reliabilty... you build it for power... so grab $500 and find a bummed out 1275 and rebuild that instead of the 1100.

I love smallbores, dont get me wrong, I just put in my 1100 on Sunday... but if I was planning a big HP car it would be a 1275...

Good luck.
Peter
Author:  DOZ [ Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:04 am ]
Post subject: 
I agree with Peter, your list is way too short.

For EFI add pump/s filter regulator injectors sensors pipes etc etc, at least $1k for new stuff if not more.

It might seem romantic to use a smallbore for the project, but you will find the cost saving of initial purchase insignificant to the project total cost.

My advice - Buy a metro turbo engine and sell off the bits you don't need such as zoorst manifold/carby etc etc. This will give you a 1275 with the sodium zoorst valves ($75 each valve + retainers + caps - these are not the same as regular heads).

regards

Daniel
Author:  Lillee [ Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:48 am ]
Post subject: 
I question the reliability of an 1098 crank being pushed to the limit. Don't get me wrong, I think 1098 cranks are tough creatures but running at 130-140hp and beyond is asking abit much for a Cooper S crank let alone a humble 1098 with smaller journals...
Author:  Spaceboy [ Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
yeah, if you're gonna run a smallbore hard with high rpm, use a 998
Author:  rampage101 [ Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
My main goal in starting this was to go an injected turbo, injected is crap with siamese inlet ports, so that led me to an 8/7 port head. Now what does one need with a turbo? A custom set of headers, so I don't need extractors. What does one need with injection? Throttle bodies/custom intakes, so I havn't factored those prices in because I intend to custom fabricate these myself.

I still havn't decided on which motor I'll be using, at the moment it just seems like the 1275 is just extra cost. I don't wanna skimp on this, but at the same time, I'm borrowing the money, and I don't wanna borrow a huge amount if possible.

Parts List:
1100 Engine
Elder 8 Port - $3200
Megasquirt ECU - $247 US (Prebuild as I cbf soldering it together)
40mm Throttle bodies (x4)
Custom made exhaust
Custom made intake runners
*4x Injectors (thinking a 1.8L pulsar/astra or something)
*1x Fuel rail (see above)
*EFI fuel pump
*EFI regulator

* Second hand parts more than likely

Yes, I'm building this engine for power, but not power as in all the engine is capable of, straining it to every last nut and bolt to shave 1 10th of a second off a race lap, its a street car, not a race car.
Author:  pristic [ Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think you will find that everyone would love to see an elder 8 port injected turbo mini... dont get me wrong, but at the same time, spending 3200 on the head and then taking a few shortcuts on the rest (no offence, but it comes down to that)

Yeah, if you can fabricate your own headers, etc you will save heaps, but you can spend less total $ on a fully worked 1275 and get the same power. (say for around $6k)

Its all up to you, yeah, the Elder head rocks... it flows great but make sure your bottom end is up to the job...

Peter.

PS: Daniel (DOZ) can help you more with the injection and computer, turbo stuff... we're all just trying to help you from getting half way, being broke and having nothing cept a lot of stress.
Author:  rampage101 [ Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeh I realise that, and I'm really grateful for all the ideas, thanks guys. I'll definetly look into a 1275, I've got a running 1100, so maybe I'll look at offloading some stuff to help recover some costs.

Well, I'm hoping to get the majority of the shell inside painted tommorow, and then hopefully finish panel beating through the next weeks, finish off my internal boot hinges and get those worked out, then I should be just about ready to spray the car.
Author:  drmini in aust [ Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hey are you sure the Elder 8 port head is suitable for a smallbore, the 31mm exhaust valves will hang heaps over the block, also the ports etc are too big for a smallbore really.
These heads are meant for a 1275 or bigger, is my understanding.

Get thee a 1275 donk to start with, I reckon. :wink:
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