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Front suspension setup
https://ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=28834		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Lillee [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Front suspension setup
I have done it! I purchased non adjustable neg 1.5° lower arms on ebay (bypass the legality debate over adjustables altogether :wink: ). I've had a pair of adjustable tie rods for some time, mainly because my std arms are bent.

So on friday night I put them all on. 1h 45mins later, well i could have done them quicker but the blardly left pot joint decided to split it's boot and pop out 2 balls... But anyway I took it to Jim Hunters Suspension in Blacktown who are one of the only people left who can do 10 inch wheels.

The settings are as follows:

Front right:
Camber -1.5°
Castor 3.5°

Front left
Camber -1.5°
Castor 3.75°

1/16 thou total toe out.

I think my subframe is bent because he could not get the castor to be exactly 3.5° on the left, it was off by 1/4° before i changed the lower arms as well.

The rears are both 1° negative camber and 1/16th toed in.

Handling
So you may ask, does it actually make a difference? The answer is a big YES! the car used to feel very understeery through fast corners, nothing overly uncontrollable but the rear always felt like it was heavy and did not want to go the same way. Now it turns in perfectly, very sharp, hardly any understeer if at all. It's much more "willing" in corners. I am not yet used to it :oops: but it is better than before.

When looking at the car, I secretly wished you could see the camber so it would look the part :P but you don't notice anything on the front wheels at all (not like the cars at the autosalon that have like 10 degree cambers :lol: )

All in all for around $150 including the alignment at Jim Hunters, it was worthwhile in my book 8)
Author:  willy [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Says he who looped his car on a Mini cruise! :P :lol:
Author:  Lillee [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:08 am ]
Post subject: 
Yeah that was years ago and I blame the tyres :P

The other thing I noticed:

The neg arms are thicker and heavier, possible later type?
She how undulates over bumps when before she crashes and hopped over them <--good thing that!
Author:  cush [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:14 am ]
Post subject: 
Something i was curious about..

From what i can see, as you turn the wheel, the negative camber on the outside wheel increases.

Is the usual "recommended" value of -1* to -1.5* meant as the static angle or the angle once you're in a turn.(i assume it's called dynamic) ie.. set it lower than 1.5 so that once you're in a corner and the wheel is turned , the angle increases to 1.5?

i can't imagine why you would need much camber at all while you're in a straight line..
Author:  Lillee [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:22 am ]
Post subject: 
Straight line it does nothing but wears the inside of the tyres...

I don't know about the outside wheel in a turn, but the inside wheel is the one that does all the work... the outside wheel usually lifts off the ground anyway...
Author:  willy [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:36 am ]
Post subject: 
It's not generally so much the angle of camber on steering lock, its the lean when the vehicle is thrown into a corner.
The car will tend to push in, and therefore negative camber will have an increased area of tyre on the road therefore offering more grip than 0 or positive camber would.

I suppose :P
Author:  cush [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:50 am ]
Post subject: 
willy wrote:
It's not generally so much the angle of camber on steering lock, its the lean when the vehicle is thrown into a corner.
The car will tend to push in, and therefore negative camber will have an increased area of tyre on the road therefore offering more grip than 0 or positive camber would.

I suppose :P


but when you're taking a corner, usually, you're steering somewhat and that would be increasing the dynamic camber..

is the best contact patch acheived by a wheel @ -1.5* camber DURING the corner or by what ever the camber increases to during the turn?

Lillee wrote:
I don't know about the outside wheel in a turn, but the inside wheel is the one that does all the work... the outside wheel usually lifts off the ground anyway...


i'll let you have a think about that one before i respond to it.... :?

*outside wheel means the wheel on the outside of the corner..(front right on a left hand turn and vice versa)
Author:  willy [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:52 am ]
Post subject: 
I think its a game of fiddling until you get the right setup that feels good for you.
And difference in tyres changes the feel dramatically, no matter what the camber setting is :P
Author:  Lillee [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Lillee wrote:
I don't know about the outside wheel in a turn, but the inside wheel is the one that does all the work... the outside wheel usually lifts off the ground anyway...


i'll let you have a think about that one before i respond to it.... :?

*outside wheel means the wheel on the outside of the corner..(front right on a left hand turn and vice versa)[/quote]

Yes you are right, it's early monday morning still for me :oops:

Anyway works in the opposite way, when car turns left, rolls over towards right, neg camber gives you more grip on the wheel that is touching the ground.

Anyway all I know is that it works!
Author:  cush [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Lillee wrote:
Anyway works in the opposite way, when car turns left, rolls over towards right, neg camber gives you more grip on the wheel that is touching the ground.


yes i know that, but i'm refering to the changes that happen to the camber of the wheel while travelling through the corner..

when you turn, the force from the road push the wheel to a more vertical position, but the more you steer, the reverse happens...

and i know the castor angle affects the amount of change...

it might need a laser measurer and camera (attached to the wheel arch) to see what's happening.. :)

the things you think about when your car is off the road.. :oops:
Author:  Lillee [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
Image

This is probably why neg camber works :wink:
Author:  sports850 [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
I thought exactly the same thing when I saw that pic ... How's lillee look with the 1 1/2 neg camber ?
Author:  Lillee [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah as I said, I wished secretly that you can see that the car has alot of camber (for that fully sic tuned look of course :P ) but you hardly notice, mainly cuase they are small tyres and not as low profile?

Function over form! 8)
Author:  cush [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
nice picture, still demonstrating the absolute fundamentals of camber..


but my question still stands.. :)
Author:  Morris 1100 [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Actually that is a bad picture to show the effects of camber. You need a photo that shows the loaded wheel. :wink:

You don't need camber to go straight ahead. You need negative camber to go around corners better.
The idea of running 1.5° camber with 3.5° castor is when you are turning-in you will end up with 4 to 5° camber.

Look at this photo (borrowed from the fantastic Autopix site)
Image

Then look at this one...
Image
It does not matter what the unloaded wheel is doing as long as the loaded wheel is working properly.
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