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Reliability-Civic Brake Conversion
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Author:  Gareth_1330 [ Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Reliability-Civic Brake Conversion
Im contemplating throwing a set of civic discs on my car, the conversion is underway courtesy of my original from drums. The car currently has a tired set of S discs... My concern is that the civic discs will be inferior in both strength and durability to the S ones... My main concerns are...

Damage to the flange via the wheel bearing -- i know the usual cause of this is a loose crown nut but also i have heard people suggest hard cornering can cause the wheelbearing to stick. I had planned to put timken tapper rollers in and proably still will as they can take the most load, although the new std. wheelbearings have a built in spacer, giving them a larger area to distribute the load, possibly making them less likely to stick? Every buggered flange ive seen has grooves where the wheelbearings cut in, the spacer never sticks obviously. Perhaps one of the Std. spacered wheelbearings would just stick?........... Can anyone shed any light on this and on flange durability with this conversion?

The possibility of the cv breaking... The Cooper S CV is much thicker in diameter over the cooper disc CV and more importantly the drum CV used in the conversion. When they made the cooper discs the obviously upsized for a reason. Has anyone broke one? I dont want to lose a wheel at wakefield! heh

I should mention the car is street driven (but driven hard, ahem) except for the odd track day, and runs 10X6 inch revolutions which are ofset quite far putting extra load on Wheelbearings and such, although i wont be running the spacer on the conversion as the wheels stick out so bloody far now, to the point where after turning when one wants the car to straighten itself it has the tendancy to keep turning, so that should help lessen the load on the wheelbearings...

Any information regarding this, including what wheels and wheelbearings the car runs and how it is driven would be greatly appreciated...
Author:  drmini in aust [ Sat Jul 10, 2004 3:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Cooper S C/V just happened to be in the BMC parts bin already- it's a Morris 1100/1300 item, designed for 12" wheels.
<edit> they just needed a new drive flange to suit the S disc and Mini wheel stud PCD.

my 2c...
People used to rally Cooper 997 & 998, which have exactly the same C/V and a similar drive flange as drum cars.
Race 998 Coopers (appendix J) still use them, they are not allowed the S setup as far as I know.
I used to run 10x6 steel wheels back in the 60s on the drum setup. Only thing we broke was early 850 wheel centres (thin).

There are people in Oz running 13x6 wheels on the road with the drum setup, some have put the Hondas on already. (ping Animal???) :wink:
Author:  PhildoD [ Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
Definitely go the Taper Wheel Bearings. They're not hard to change, and if ya find the right place, they arent that much more expensive that the standard bearings. I paid 38 bucks for each set(2 sets for the front end), and they come with the spacer included. Doc has the part numebr ya need, and I would suggest trying BSC Bearing Services as one of the better places for a price.
Author:  drmini in aust [ Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Apparently, the deal to get a good price at BSC is to have an account there. :wink:
Probably applies to all the other bearing joints too.

BTW, any bearing company can get them from Timken. Deal thru whoever you usually do.

Timken's latest P/N for the front hub kit is LM67049A 9F2B8
Kit comprises 2 bearings and spacer. Fit them as a set. NO SEALS.... buy separately..

<EDIT> Note- these `Cooper S' bearings DO fit into drum brake hubs. Don't believe otherwise. I/D and O/D are the same as common Mini front hub ball bearings.

:wink:
Author:  dewey [ Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
yeah I was about to say that my guy said that you can't do tapered bearings on the front. I'd heard around the traps that Tapered are better but when I put some thought into it I figured they were probably for the discs.

The Doc is starting to answer my questions before I ask them.....

dewey
Author:  PhildoD [ Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
I can attest to the taper bearings fitting in drums. I did it not too long ago, when I did my CV joints too
Author:  dewey [ Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
D'oh!!!

Wish i didn't just pay 65 per side for std balls!!!!


GRRRR


dewey
Author:  PhildoD [ Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
It's actually easier to do the taper's on drums, since ya just punch the outer race out, when they're cactus. Ya have to get a puller onto the discs, or grind and split the races, so I believe.
Author:  drmini in aust [ Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Discs only need a puller if the drive flange or the bearings are fretted from running loose or no grease... :wink:

I find balls on the drum hubs are more of a PITA- the outer bearing inner ring often jams on the drive flange.... get the grinder out... :x
Author:  MiNi MuLiShA [ Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
has anyone else done the change to tapered rollers??

-Cam :lol:
Author:  drmini in aust [ Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Black_Van_73 wrote:
has anyone else done the change to tapered rollers??

-Cam :lol:

TheMiniMan (Matt Read) says he won't use anything but Timkens now, in drum braked cars.
They last longer too.
Yeah I know BMC/BL/Rover used angular contact ball bearings in the Morris 1100, and the Metro. Cheapskates..

Look in any bearing book- load ratings for a tapered roller bearing are ~double that of an equivalent angular contact ball bearing. Which is why the S had 'em.:wink:
Author:  meeni [ Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
is ther like a wider drum u can get that increases stopping power. i want to stop good but i have no money ( excuse the hijack)
Author:  min13k [ Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:03 am ]
Post subject: 
when useing wider wheels that extend out wards the load increases on the bearings all my cars run timkins i have the old style colaps on me not nice
makka
Author:  Christoph [ Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
meeni, theres no cheap way around it... just save your pennies like i did then one day you will have saved more again for the 1275... just be patient- thats life.
Author:  Metalfab_101 [ Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Christoph wrote:
meeni, theres no cheap way around it... just save your pennies like i did then one day you will have saved more again for the 1275... just be patient- thats life.


You might be right Christoph but it's not what the young whippersnappers want to hear :P
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