Wow fantastic link thanks Simon, will save me some time and money. I'm wondering if 2 injectors into the mouth of the supercharger will suffice or if i should swap to a set up like this woth the injectors after the SC. I have heard previously that if you mount the injectors after the SC the fuel/air mix is not good enough.

On the other hand the SC was not designed as a suck through and have heard of the teflon coating coming off the internals though dont know of anyone first hand with this problem. Think I will go with the suck through set up still.

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1965 Riley Elf
1974 Ex Army Moke
1997 Rover Cooper
2002 JCW Cooper
2003 JCW Cooper S

I always thought the Teflon coming off was caused by heat and high RPM, a combination of both at extreme levels.

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Respect mine and I'll respect yours.

yeah, I reckon the teflon coming off rumour is crap - mine is perfectly fine

its meant to be the heat that gets them, trying to get too much boost

[quote=babes]
I have heard previously that if you mount the injectors after the SC the fuel/air mix is not good enough.
[/quote]

You might've heard the talk about siamese ports and charge robbing, which is why people use two pairs of injectors. Some low cc ones for cruising and some high cc for power. Which is what that fella basically ended up with.

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did I tell you that I won a trophy?

Update time

Jim has kindly tweaked my MS to handle the injection and I should receive that back in a few days.

Here are some mock up pics, fabrication work should be finished by the end of the week. I have had a custom inlet manifold made, the vmax one was absolute rubbish, fuel rail running 2 400cc injectors into the inlet manifold, Nissan n13 throttle body with another 400cc injector into the mouth.

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1965 Riley Elf
1974 Ex Army Moke
1997 Rover Cooper
2002 JCW Cooper
2003 JCW Cooper S

noice - just what I would have done with it...

_________________
did I tell you that I won a trophy?

Looking very good.

From an envious VMAXSCART kit owner:)

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1969 Cooper "S"
1967 Mini Deluxe
1973 Clubman Van (the fleet spare)
1978 ex 1275 LS ("Wizard" Eaton Supercharged)
2015 HSV GenF GTS(occasional drive & tow car)
2019 MINI F55 Cooper S

Could you please tell us what size the throttle body is? I have picked up a 55mm one for my build but it is so hard to work out what size is going to balance throttle control against losses.

M

Think it was 50mm from memory.

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1965 Riley Elf
1974 Ex Army Moke
1997 Rover Cooper
2002 JCW Cooper
2003 JCW Cooper S

Do you have a pic of the custom inlet manifold? Where did you locate the 2 injectors?

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Website: http://www.dutchysmini.com/
Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/Dutchysmini/

Previously owned the Red VTEC Mini (B16A)

Project currently on the go:
1961 Morris mini
Engine conversion - WRX EJ255

I will try and get one. The fuel rail runs directly under the sc with 2 injectors into the inlet and the 3rd into the mouth of the sc.

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1965 Riley Elf
1974 Ex Army Moke
1997 Rover Cooper
2002 JCW Cooper
2003 JCW Cooper S

Depending on how far the injectors are from the head and the angle they're on you may not need the one in the mouth.
I originally planned to do the same but using the one before the SC to spray fuel mist over the rotors to cool the air temp down a bit. In the end this injector became the main one for idle and low rpm's. The other two in the inlet manifold were too far away from the head and on too steep of an angle that the fuel just sprayed onto the walls of the manifold pipes making it run like crap at low rpm's and idle. On the other hand they are now staged to come in at high rpm's when the forced air can carry the fuel through avoiding it spraying on the walls.

In the end it runs great under load and has increased the power by 30% but driving around town is a bit dodgy. I think the injector angle and location is contributing to this.

I am considering redesigning my manifold so the injectors are completely horizontal aiming directly into the head and closer to the head making it easier to tune accurately for both fast and slow driving. Hence why I am interested in seeing your manifold design.

My car is the one on a previous post in your thread from Simon K below
If you need any feedback from me to assist you with your setup then let me know.

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Website: http://www.dutchysmini.com/
Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/Dutchysmini/

Previously owned the Red VTEC Mini (B16A)

Project currently on the go:
1961 Morris mini
Engine conversion - WRX EJ255

Love your website Steve

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SooperDooperMiniCooperExpertEngineering

All garage work involves equal measures of enthusiasm, ingenuity and a fair degree of irresponsibility.

Thanks Dutchy, as soon as I saw the pic I knew who you were. The car is at the fabricators still, the injectors are much closer on mine they sit right above the exhaust. I am planning on heading down tomorrow to check progress so will try and get a pic of the manifold without the charger on it.

Thanks for your build thread too, thats why I went the 3rd injector to be on the safe side.

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1965 Riley Elf
1974 Ex Army Moke
1997 Rover Cooper
2002 JCW Cooper
2003 JCW Cooper S

Hey Jason. I've just got home and read this thread. I'm concerned about this third injector, as MS II only supports two banks of injectors. I could be wrong though, anyone else wishing to pipe in, pipe in. Your MS II as tested though, is only set up for two banks (high impedance or low using PWM peak hold), which can be run as alternating or simultaneous. You will most probably run as alternating!

Why do you need three? Two 400cc will give ~ 125BHP @ flywheel with BSFC 0.55 and 90% Duty cycle, you might look to get slightly larger ones. Are these injectors low impedance or high? See http://www.witchhunter.com/injectorcalc1.php for a injector calculator. Try to use an injector that is close to your max expected HP, don't go to big as you might run into idle problems as the opening time at idle will get smaller. Also if you get the 'dead time' specs, or as I did I calculated/measured them my self. Having the settings makes tuning the VE etc a lot easier.

If you were to upgrade the MS II to a MS III with a MSX board, you can control up to 8 high impedance injectors. I think you can get away with just the two. On my NA 1310 which is most probably putting out 60BHP @ the wheel, it's only got one 620cc injector.

Sorry if this is a little garbled, just come of a late shift, and getting ready to call it a night as have a 7am start.

Cheers,
Jim

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'68 Morris Mini 1310 A+ (Now Sold!)

The squirts can't be alternating, because the engine fires 2 - 1 then 3 - 4, if you alternate the injectors then 1 and 4 will never get any fuel, and 2 and 3 will always have fuel sitting on the back of the valve when it opens, and gets another squirt. Basically turning it into a 2 cylinder engine

You should have put the siamese code mod into it - dunno which one it's in as I have ms3, but doing direct port injection is where the charge robbing problem comes up. You need to have big injectors to get enough fuel squirted in the very short opening time you have between valves opening, the siamese code takes care of this and lets you do individual cylinder timing.

Go to turbominis and read up on charge robbing. MS3 has it out of the box, though I'm not using it (yet)

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did I tell you that I won a trophy?