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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:10 am 
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Hi all,
I am now the proud owner of a 1994 Rover Spi Cooper.
If a BMW is a Bini, does that make mine a Rini? :?:

As it is bog stock factory standard, and I am looking for a bit more oompf, what is the best path for a daily driven mini to get a bit more stick.
My budget is around $2,000 and I have already grown attached to the aircon and fuel injection, so this might limit some options, also I believe engine compression to be ~9.4:1.

I liked the supercharger idea (lots of torque) but the constant whine could get a bit much, besides I already get that sound at home. :?

I look forward to all your advice, thanks. :P


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:26 am 
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Hi Dave, welcome to ausmini.

Good choice on your car, I'm sure theres a few people who wouldn't mind a later mini.

Regarding power, the easiest way for a small increase is extractors and a new exhaust system. You could also ditch the injection in favour of a twin carb setup.
I'm not sure if you can supercharge your car and keep the fuel injection, since most
'kits' work with the carbs, and the stock computer might not be up to the job.

And your car is still a mini, so you can sleep at night! :D


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 2:53 pm 
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there is a kit in the uk for supercharging injected minis, uses a bmw mini supercharger and is suposed to raise power to around 140hp i think

ill just find the link

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 7:32 pm 
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The EFI system doesn't respond too well to modified heads but it can be reprogrammed through the diagnostic port. It may be possible to find an ex-Rover UK employee who souvenired a copy of the required software when the company when tits-up.
If you can find the editing software then do the usual ports/rockers/cam/free flow exhaust, take it to a dyno and you can get a very healthy engine still with the A/C and smooth EFI idle.

One of the mini places in Brisbane had put an after-market computer onto an SPi engine and ran over 85Hp at the rollers on the dyno.

M.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:34 pm 
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http://www31.brinkster.com/vmaxscart/supercharger.htm


New mpi supercharger conversion, prices according to your current state of tune, fitted from ?2000 (has stage three kit) to ?2600 (standard car) power 127 bhp @5500rpm,130 lbs ft @4000 rpm.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:51 pm 
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is 9:4:1 comp. ratio too high for forced induction? Or am i wrong? :oops:


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:53 pm 
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Fat Boy Dave wrote:
My budget is around $2,000....


Doesn't matter what tuning kit he orders from the UK, he'll blow his budget on the postage! :D


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:33 am 
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Mokesta

"One of the mini places in Brisbane had put an after-market computer onto an SPi engine and ran over 85Hp at the rollers on the dyno. "

Any idea what else was done to the car? :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:52 pm 
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Not specifics, but I think it just had some head work and decent exhaust. Speak to Glen Carpenter of Glen Carpenter motors in Brisbane for details. Just don't tell him I sent you then waste his time :roll: Of course I could have got the wrong end of the stick and then I'll look like a complete twat :oops:

M


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:43 pm 
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Thanks for the advice, I might trowel through some of the UK forums and see what they have to say. All they seem to say is ditch the EFI and get a Carb. Surely there must be some way to get the EFI working as well as a Carb :!:


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:14 am 
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There are many problems with an injected mini. If someone said they got 85 FWP then they hold the world record by a ling way and evryone else doesn't know what they are doing. This thread will show you it basically can't get that much of an increase....

http://www.minimania.com/web/threadid/7 ... thread.cfm

There is another thread on Minimania explaining why, it goes something like

The computer limits the fuel delivery and nothing can be done about that. The ECU cannot be replaced as there is no other available. I think someone was investigating using a piggy back controller but the results haven't surfaced yet. Power is tied to fuel delivery end of story. X amount of fuel produces X amount of horsepower.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:54 pm 
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Quote:
The ECU cannot be replaced as there is no other available.


I disagree. A computer can always be replaced, it is just a matter of how much re-wiring you want to do. There are many computers available that will drive the single injector in a SPi mini. With a substitute computer and correctly sized injector you can get the right fuelling. The HP is then limited to pumping efficiency of the motor, capacity and compression ratio minus losses.

The fundamental limitation to any EFI mini is the shared ports which require either a very well tuned sequential injection or a virtually continuous fuel delivery at some distance from the ports.

The MPi injection is sequential, using a cam sensor to know whether the cylinders are on compression or exhaust stroke. Modifying the engine changes the required injection timing which leads to sub-optimum performance.

The SPi injection is more like a carby with near continuous fuel delivery at a distance from the ports sufficient to ensure the mixture entering the cylinders is even in A/F ratio. It is not a sequential system (obviously) and does not have the cam sensor. The power limitation with this set up is the air flow ability of the manifold, the fact that fuel-laden air has to take 90 degree bends (giving manifold wetting, hence the electric heater fitted) and the fuelling limitations of the standard computer.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 1:13 pm 
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Does this mean I can get good gains from effective porting of the inlet manifold?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 7:44 pm 
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Mokesta wrote:

I disagree.


Disagree all you want, it doesn't change facts and they are no one has apparently been able to do it. Another bit of reading for those interested..

http://www.minimania.com/web/threadid/7 ... thread.cfm

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:44 pm 
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Two points Chris.
1) I'm probably a big twat for repeating the claims of another person without checking their validity. My bad & you are right, the number is too high to be correct. :oops: :cry:

2) You say that you cannot change the standard computer on an SPi engine. This is not true, you can change it. What you can't do is get around the shape of the SPi manifold with its tiny little throttle valve and 90 degree bends, unless you change that as well. It is entirely possible to change the standard computer to another that will drive the single injector. There are heaps available that can do that. It would just be a wiring & reprogramming job to do it. If the injector flowed too little you could change that too. What will be the power results? Who knows but maybe not worth the effort due to the manifold's flow and over-run issues associated with wet runners.

I have read all those threads you linked and there is no one who has said that the above is not true. The discussions just centre around whether it is good to go for a non-port injection system where the fuel/air are mixed completely (in some sort of plenum or with a variable rate, non-pulsing injector) or whether it is worth the (very big) hassle to try to get a sequential system to work as efficiently as a carb set up.

It is off-topic here but multi-point, efficient port injection on a mini is a real challenge. As anyone who has gone through the siamese port theory will know, efficient port injection requires:
Sequential injector firing, one injector pulse per cylinder per 2 crank revs, careful (mappable) timing of the injector pulses to get equal A/F ratio in each cylinder, good manifold design to get the fuel into the cylinder without wetting the runners, probably more than one oxygen sensor, a computer that can run all this and finally a tuner who understands and can set it all up.

The rover MPi works-around some of these requirements by increasing the runner surface area and spraying the fuel at the large surface, evening out the A/F ratio of the charge air as it runs into the port. It is still sequential though, unlike the most cheap after market EFI computers.

There are only a few aftermarket EFI computers available in Aus that can do all the things listed. Motec high end models have sequential capability and also the ability to trim the injector pulse phasing for each injector according to certain parameters. If 4 injectors were used, 2 in each runner, then the Motec phasing adjustment may be enough to equalise the A/F ratios. Of course the EFi computer and required dyno time would be worth about as much as the car so it will take a someone with enough money and a point to prove to do it.

Summary:
SPi = limited potential but re-programmable if you want.
MPi = limited potential from Rover system and a shed-load of work for an after market system. Better off doing an engine conversion for less money and time with certain results.

Engineering is facts, what's on the internet, including this, is just some dick's opinion. 8)


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