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anyone got fwd r1 engine in oz
https://ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=43028		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  the vanman [ Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  anyone got fwd r1 engine in oz
just wondering if anyone had r1, bussa or anyother bike engine conversion for that matter. must be front wheel drive and had no cutting of inner guards etc so it could be changed back later if needed.
must have reverse can you post pics or links please.
looking for any in oz and if anyone makes kits here.
looking for something like pro-motive would like to bolt in to mini subframe.
Author:  sports850 [ Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Nothing as of yet as bike engines aren't legal in cars due to them not being emission tested to the same standards ...
Author:  the vanman [ Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
that sux a bike engine from a 2000 on bike must have lower emisions than a 70's mini engine surly you should only have to be the same of better than the year of manufacture.
Author:  sports850 [ Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
But you've got to prove that it has less , and that costs over $7,000 in testing alone apparently :shock:
Author:  Kennomini [ Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
But if say a Yamaha 998cc R1 engine was tested and past would that clear the way for all Yamaha 998cc R1 engines of the same spec to be used Australia wide :?:
Author:  the vanman [ Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
is there no emission standards for bikes they must be something we could refer to or is it another case of bueracratic crap.
Author:  spraycanmansam [ Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
the vanman wrote:
is there no emission standards for bikes they must be something we could refer to or is it another case of bueracratic crap.


There is, but they're not the same as the automotive emission tests. They're actually stricter, go figure... :roll:
Author:  sports850 [ Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
the vanman wrote:
or is it another case of bueracratic crap.


Give that man a kewpie doll ...
Author:  TheMiniMan [ Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Image


Image

Ok,,, maybe it`s not quite street legal,,, but never the less , it is FWD & it is powered by an R1 donk & it is fitted into a mini front subframe

:-)
Author:  Archangel007 [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:47 am ]
Post subject: 
From a previous post (see here: http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32308&highlight=motorcycle+test)..........

Not entirely true!!

In Europe you can have a bike-engined car as a road registerable, emission compliant vehicle.

In Europe at the moment the emission standards are Euro 3/4 standards (2000/2005): Directive 98/69/EC, which are more stringent than Australian emission standard currently in play which is ADR 79/01 for new model light vehicles commenced in 2005 (although Australia is moving to implement Euro 4 for all vehicles).

The theory stands then, that if the vehicle is compliant in UK/Europe which has higher requirements for compliance, then those same vehicles (whether passenger cars, trucks or motorbikes it makes no difference) would naturally meet the current ADR 79/01

This is our argument.

We know that motorcycles are tested for emissions compliance in the UK/EU and they use whats called the World Motorcycle Test Cycle, which is used by the latest EU regulations Euro3/4 (this is why 2-strokes are no longer allowed as they dont comply). The following table shows the allowable emissions for motorcycles as it currently stands - comparing the US (Environmental Protection Agency) and EU -

On-Highway Motorcycle Emission Standards for EPA and EU
HC (g/km) NOx (g/km) CO (g/km)
1980 EPA Limits 5.0 NA 12.0
2006 - Tier 1 1.4 (HC+NOX) 12.0
2010 - Tier 2 0.8 (HC+NOX) 12.0
Euro II (2004) 1.0 0.3 5.5
Euro III (2007) 0.3 0.15 2.0

The problem is that ADR does not specifically address motorcycles whereby Euro regulations do.

The argument that we are putting to DOTARS is that if we can prove that the motorcycle engine is Euro 3/4 compliant (by way of letter from manufacturer or distributor), then all this BS surrounding emissions regulations is a mute point and cannot be used as justification for claiming the vehicle cannot be road-registerable.

This then leaves anly the engineering side to worry about!!!

Cheers,
Tricky

After sending numerous letters to the authorities regarding this very subject, and recieving the same answers for a while they have now changed track and have quoted various Engineering requirements under VSB 14 (Vehicle Standards Bulletin No. 14) which dont address any of our issues. Basically, they know that the emissions argument is all rubbish (to quote Clarkson), and it wont stand up against stringent scrutiny, so now, they are trying to baffle us with other standards. The way I see it, once we have letter from a manufacturer (Honda seem to be willing, Suzuki and Yamaha seem to be non-committal), then this issue will go away - all they are trying to do is scare us with this emissions BS. :x

If we can find an engineer in Australia who is willing to put his neck on the line, then I for one will do a conversion for free just to open the floodgates! Lets get real here people, if the logic was followed through to its end, then all motorcycles in Australia would be banned if they wanted to enforce the emissions requirements (under ADR 79/01). Whether an engine is pushing a dual-seat two-wheel motorbike, or whether is is pushing a two seat (or four!) four-wheel machine is irrelevant!! If its road legal, its road legal period!!

Its just that a road-legal, bike powered Mini is too hard for them, and no-one wants to take ownership of the situation, nor do they want to held accountable in any way. Typical f&%king Beaurocrats using typical f&%king bearocratic red-tape to hide behind. And it makes me angry :x

I can go to any country in the EU, and buy an SR3 Radical or Westfield XTR and use it on the roads - if Australia was so contemporary then why not here and why not now??? This is our question!!

Cheers,
Tricky
Author:  KLAS [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:17 am ]
Post subject: 
but there is a big problem with "in Europe you can.."

there are a lot of things accepted by one state, but not by an other.
like the twin engine Opel Corsa build by Germans, had to become registered in England as there was no way to register it in Germany without spending big money to proof a lot of things.
another problem is to proof emissions. if you fit a bike engine with euro4 emission into an other vehicle they will tell you that you have to re-proof emissions as any modification will affect emissions. different intake, exhaust or vehicle weight won't help emission behavior so you have to proof that you still reach euro4. not cheap at all.

it's not impossible to do all this but it will cost very much.

i think the engineers/authorities down under will argue like this, too
Author:  Archangel007 [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:52 am ]
Post subject: 
KLAS,

Not necessarily so. We are talking about taking a bike engine and sticking it in a car - no alterations, no additions or amendments. Just as the manufacturer intended.

It is not up to us to prove emissions compliance, it has already been done by the Manufacturer, all that needs to happen is for DOTARS to recognise this (in fact they do, because bikes are code compliant in Australia). The problem is, is that there is no legislative guidelines addressed specifically at motorcycle emissions compliance like there is in the EC.

Dont get the issue of emissions compliance confused with engineering compliancing as with the Corsa. The issue of engineering compliance is not a global one but on an individual case-by-case basis. For example, no-one twelve months ago thought that we could do a mid-mount, RWD Mini, and now we have the go ahead from QLD Dept. Transport for this. The motorcycle engine is the next step.

Cheers,
Tricky
Author:  dbr11k [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
crazy talk....
Author:  superSeven [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
KLAS wrote:
but there is a big problem with "in Europe you can.."
you have to re-proof emissions as any modification will affect emissions. different intake, exhaust or vehicle weight won't help emission behavior so you have to proof that you still reach euro4. not cheap at all.


if thiat were the case, you'd need to get any engine (be it car/bike/otherwise) re-tested for emissions if you put on any modified intake/exhaust..
Author:  feralsprint [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
superSeven wrote:
KLAS wrote:
but there is a big problem with "in Europe you can.."
you have to re-proof emissions as any modification will affect emissions. different intake, exhaust or vehicle weight won't help emission behavior so you have to proof that you still reach euro4. not cheap at all.


if thiat were the case, you'd need to get any engine (be it car/bike/otherwise) re-tested for emissions if you put on any modified intake/exhaust..


That is correct and is what the rego people will make you do, the engine to comply without retesting has to have all the standard factory items fitted and any changes even to the airfilter will stop the engine from being considered compliant
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