all Quotes from my previous posts within this topic-->
i`m not saying that i`m the best person in the world for designing & fabricating & producing jap engine conversion mini subframes,,, but my share in the design & fabrication of the subframe "WE" have produced is a big part in the "WHY" it`s so dam good
Not bagging you Archangle (or anyone in particular) ,,, definately not,,, i havn`t seen your frame in person so i havn`t commented on yours "In-particular"
mine are more like the original mini pressed metal plate, triangulated
type approach... very time consuming & obviously more costly , but
laterally & torsionally very much better
& again, i hope everyone can understand that i havn`t meant any offence to anyones frame in particular, just relaying the poor design & weaknesses in
the ones i`ve seen & driven so far.
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now,,, JC,,, i`ve read back through all the pages but i cannot see anywhere that i`ve claimed or spoken about weaknesses of "All the hanging type frames",,, you & i have never had a beef between us & i think it`s because we usually understand eachother quite well & most often we agree with eachother pretty consistanly,,, sorry but as far as i can remember & as far as i can see, i havn`t made a claim about weakness of ALL hanging type frames,,, my quotes above are direct copy & pastes of my previous posts & are unmodified (apart from the obvious highlights) from their original typing,,,i`ve continued to say that i havn`t seen "ALL" jap converted frames &
i`m not bagging anyones in particulars frame.
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Tricky,,, I`ll say it again,,, i`m not knocking "YOUR" frame, i`ve already said that i havn`t seen it, so i can`t coment on it...
However, your statement here--->
"""the QBR subframe is designed, in a frontal collision (heaven forbid), to carry the engine down and back under the car, totally avoiding the chance of penetration into the passenger compartment.
The original on the other hand, does not take this safety factor into account as it was not a design directive to begin with. """
The std mini front subframe & power unit assy package does actually do "
EXACLTY" what you`re saying it doesn`t,,, my father has gone to court, as an expert witness, on many occasions, with regard to the safety of the mini (& subsequent mods done to them) & prooved beyond any doubt this exact same subject as fact,,, he`s also prooven on many occasion that the steering wheel & column assy doesn`t need to be modified into a collapsable system & in fact could be detrimental to do so (this particular item is commonly brought up with regard to the fitment of flip front panels or removable front panels) The steering column will tilt forwards "AWAY" from the driver in a head on collision & the actual reason "WHY" it does so is "BECAUSE" the mini front frame & power unit package "DOES" fold under the car ,--> taking the steering rack with it, & in doing so the steering column pivots off the dash mount & then the upper half of the column then tilt forwards away from the driver.
this is already a well known fact & has been prooven from the results of many tabled mini head on accident reports.
My reason for saying all that is not to discredit you in any way because you obviously understand the theory involved, but i am saying it more so to educate all the other people reading this... please understand that is my intention here,,, It`s not to bag you in any way, just correcting you slightly & stating the facts for everyone else to have confidence in the minis in-built frontal accident protection. & trust me when i say that i can also say this from my own personal experience
However,,, i must say-->YES, the std mini subframe was the result of a whole pile of compromises within the factory at the time, but it does it`s job most admirably & there are still plenty of 45+ year old std mini subframes around showing little or no problems (except in countrys where they throw salt all over the roads of course)... & yes it can obviously be improved upon,,, & many people (including us) have done exactly that over the many many years of racing that the poor little cars have endured,,, be it lightweighting & then re-bracing critical areas for circuit racing,,, or major strengthening up-grades for rallying, & anything in between.
But the std mini front subframe is not a bad little beast,,, But to chop off the whole front it & simply add a hanging "Type" frame, effectively swinging it from the
then weakened tower sections, & expecting it to take all the Lateral & torsional loads induced by power, braking & cornering,
without "much" in the way of underbracing or triangulation (just as the good Doc was suggesting earlier & as you allready know yourself) is a disaster waiting to happen
For any & all of you reading this, it doesn`t take a brain sugeon to realise that even the factory, in it`s infinate wisdom (not) , decided to "Soften" the ride in an attempt at making the later model mini a more civilised, quieter & more comfortable car by changing the original front frame mounting design to a fully rubberised mounting system,,, ok,,, that`s nice yeah???,,, until you want some consistant handling or any longetivety in your front panel work... They inherantly move around all over the place, handle very poorly (compared), crack all maner of panels in no time flat & generally made the mini a quivering piece of shite (Compared to the handling, rigitdity, & longetivety of the original solid mount frame design)
That is just the facts & i`ve only used it as an example to show how important the front frame & it`s rigidity & ability to perform way more tasks than just hold an engine in place.
Tricky, JC, & many more people on here truely "KNOW" what i`m talking about,,, you guys seriously shouldn`t be taking me the wrong way with all this, I`m not bagging you lot at all,,, I`m just saying that we`ve made our own frame too & i`m betting it`s a bloody beauty, & betting that it performs better & lasts longer... as my quotes above show,,, we`re not making it "THE SAME" as the original, we`re just using the same "TYPE of design & materials" as the original,,, we`re not welding thick walled round pipe onto thin flat plate, we`re not just adding a brace here & there,,,,we`ve "Designed" it within the same "Type" of construction & materials as the original, but to suit different power units
& JC,,, i never said we are going to barstardise the jap engine mounts,,, ours are in the same place (roughly) as their relative jap positions are... But Anyone who chops the front of a mini frame off & simply butt weld round pipe onto a flexy tower simply to hold an engine in there "WITHOUT" any thought to suspension &/or body flex... well,,, that`s where i believe you guys can agree is not the done thing yeah???
We can all have a laught & a giggle & critizise & banter about flex & safety & strength & consistancy & metalurgy & design & construction & materials & all the relative differences between each & everyones subframes,,, that`s all well & good,,, "IF" you`ve seen the frame you`re comenting on.
I will say it again--->
"""I could say that my mashed potatoe is the very best in the whole wide world & that`s because i honestly believe that it is,,, (It really is good) but in saying that i`m not telling anyone that their mashed potatoe is no good hey?"""
edit--> spelling mistakes
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