As BIGBAD was/is capable of 380HP in it's original form it was concluded that rubber mounts would not hold up to this power and solid mounting was the only option.

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Starlet Conversion:
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15484

No seriously solid mounting is just not really an option in my books,,, unless it`s in a motorbike where here is virtually no strain from excess weight/torque & smooth as a babys bottom with very few harsh harmonics

a car is a whole different kettle of fish & really should never be solid mounted,,, it may be a little obvious my bias tho

Soloid mounting just fatigues & rattles & shackes everything to death & the theory of "Go-Kart" flexable frame situation just should never enter the equation in a road or race car

as you`ve pointed out mini mad,,, even a small amount of insulation would suffice,,, just that it would need to be thought out & not just simply "Mounted" ,,, if you get my drift

There`s an old saying in the performance automotive fabrication industry & that is--->

"Strength by design & not by materials"

& that simply means that you really don`t need a piece of railway track or bridge girder to make something last,,, but in the same sense , a piece of cheap chinese string won`t fair well as an engine mount either .

& i`m not even going to start on the micro vibrations that not only cause you to go insane with the vibey noise (resonance) & constant fatiguing breakages,,, but also the amount of time needed for continual repairs & maintenance of said solid mounting product,,,

It`s absolutely nothing new,,, it`s all been done before,,, (As you all of you already know & i really shouldn`t bother typing all this, so more for the average punter or unitiated) tried & proven to the "Nth" degree & the results are that are an intellegently designed subframe & engine mountings assembly really shouldn`t need any continuing maintenance or (breakage repairs),,, unless of course you are going for the go-kart style, barest of essentials, minimalistic, lightweight , pure , out & out , race car situation.

Of which a road starlet powered mini is not.

There are plenty of mega horse power race & road cars with Nolathane (or similar product) type engine mountings which have been designed along the same lines as mini engine steady bar bushes (altho usually one piece & i`d ecpect to creat something a little larger in length/diam etc) & work quite fine over many many years of abuse,,, including nearly every single (decent) off road racing buggy or sand rail etc,,, a small amount of insulation & intellegent design goes a very very long way

ok,,, i`m done before i open another can of worms,.... oh ,,, too late

carry on,,, nothing to see here

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.

Josh,
Bigbad may be capable of 380hp but in its current trim it is topping out at 200!

Therefore, rubber or nolathane mounts would be a logical choice to reduce shock loads on the subframe in this instance.

Or, design and construct a subframe capable of withstanding compressive, tensile, shear and torsional loading of a 380hp-capable engine - the owners choice!

I know which one I would do!

Further, this is not an attack on Mr Enforcer, Mr Enforcers design or his methods of construction, this is just basic engineering 101.

Cheers,
Tricky

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"Not Speeding Officer..........Qualifying"

I drive vehicles with more than 380hp and a lot more torque and Cummins still manages to rubber mount the engines.

I am with Matt on the solid mounting bit, engines need a lot of work so that they can be solid mounted. It is not just a case of leaving the rubber bit out.

Jon I am glad you noticed . As for the distance issue, Josh, as a daily driver I rack a fair few ks and like I said not a crack (except the plumbers). Probably done 35,000 since conversion, and not completely soft kms either. Not saying this to bignote but simply to indicate that it is not simply a case of you rack up enough kms and something will give (and we're not talking 300,000 here). I think the issue with Bigbad is simply the solid mounting issue and as stated in a similar discussion many moons ago, the effect of engine "soft" mounts on launch and total hp is 1/32th of a poofteenth.

Cheers

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225hp atw on 14psi. 1/4 Mile no idea. Take one 1971 Mini Clubman, one Starlet GT Halfcut, Simmer over a warm MIG Welder, and Voila Minstar! www.mpdesign.id.au

Jon I am glad you noticed . As for the distance issue, Josh, as a daily driver I rack a fair few ks and like I said not a crack (except the plumbers). Probably done 35,000 since conversion, and not completely soft kms either. Not saying this to bignote but simply to indicate that it is not simply a case of you rack up enough kms and something will give (and we're not talking 300,000 here). I think the issue with Bigbad is simply the solid mounting issue and as stated in a similar discussion many moons ago, the effect of engine "soft" mounts on launch and total hp is 1/32th of a poofteenth.

Cheers

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225hp atw on 14psi. 1/4 Mile no idea. Take one 1971 Mini Clubman, one Starlet GT Halfcut, Simmer over a warm MIG Welder, and Voila Minstar! www.mpdesign.id.au

Attack Mr. Enforcer all you like i have no bias towards the workshop and have in fact redone most of the work he did to my car originally. However when he did the subframe for BIGBAD he was under the impression that it would be making close to 380HP.

I do believe that BIGBAD is capable of making a shitload more power that any of us could hope to make if the boost is upped a little. It makes an easy 200HP on 12psi. I have to put 18psi through to get the same power. That motor is built for it. Whether or not you could actually use that power is another story though.

Personally i wouldn't solid mount either (as per my choice in the build) however just putting some insight into why some decision were made in the first place and not whether they are right or wrong.

Matt i would wait for Ray to reply buy i would guestimate that his car has done more than double that since it was first registered.

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Starlet Conversion:
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15484

Josh, even so I would expect a subframe to last more than 70K kms before breaking like that. Also isn't the statement that the subframe was built with 380hp in mind counter-intuitive in that if it making 200hp atw and was built for almost twice that then the subframe should be LESS incliined to break.

As for the 380, even upping the boost I don't think it will ever get 380 again as alot of the stuff that was on it that contributed to that figure has been removed to make it fit in a Mini. Anyone who has had a frontcut sit in their driveway will see that even a Starlet had a shedload more room to play with as demonstrated by the FMIC that came with the bigbad motor (but was subsequently no used due to lack of space). But it will make much more than 200 certainly (my estimate approx 280 on 18psi).

As for the subframe even with rewelding I think you are trying to make a silk purse. I would start again...

Cheers

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225hp atw on 14psi. 1/4 Mile no idea. Take one 1971 Mini Clubman, one Starlet GT Halfcut, Simmer over a warm MIG Welder, and Voila Minstar! www.mpdesign.id.au

Certainly, I was talking about Brad's old car that Ray (Mr. Anderson) now has. I'm unsure how many km's BIGBAD would have done but i would say <10,000km since built so yes it is a major issue to have the frame break so early in it's life. I was just saying maybe the theory sounded a bit better when it was being built but was poorly executed?

It will never make 380HP again, but i would like to see it make more than the 200HP it makes now especially after all the work and effort with such a big intercooler and turbo setup.

I think that car is cursed.

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Starlet Conversion:
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15484

So what sort of durability does everyone foresee for their subframes , do you find it acceptible to have breakages this early on as part of the design and improvement phase or is it a bit worrying to you ? How do you go liability wise if there is an accident from the subframe breaking , is it your responsibility or the engineer who passed it ?

Maybe I wasn't being realistic but I had assumed since they were passed by the appropriate engineers (leaving all my engineer jokes alone for once) they would have had to have been produced to a strength beyond what was expected to allow for fatigue and wear and tear ?

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I am not sure with BIGBAD, but with other Minis I know the 'frame is engineered for the stock motor, as I said on the previous page. It is engineered for a 136hp engine.

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1964 Morris 850, 1330 Supercharged - 81.8hp atws.
1975 Leyland Mini S 1100S powered - Nice and reliable.
1977 Leyland Mini LS - Project LS-T

It`s "ineresting" that people so commonly , easilly , & without battering an eyelid, mention (or use) the word "Engineer" when talking about fabricating a subframe,,, when "most" (not all) of the jap engine conversion subframes that i`ve seen are basically something stuck onto a half mini frame, barely holding the donk in place,,, & with not much thought to the torsional & lateral forces that the original mini suspension design implys on it.

They`re literally ":stuck" onto with "maybe" a few little braces here & there with the intention being that "maybe" those little braces & gussets "Might" help a bit

& then we have the other end of the spectrum with some other frames i`ve seen being sooper-dooper overkill in both design & materials,,,, like railway tracks or bridge girders as the main structure (slight exageration but i think you can understand my point)

so,,, it`s with all this that i must say,,, there really needs to be a happy medium & i just can`t see any regulation with safety standards,,,, & i really can`t see that happening for a very long time either... & i also believe that it`s going to take quite a few crashes to bring it all to the attention of the powers that be, before something is done about it

Please don`t get me wrong here,,, i`m not pointing any fingers or laying any blame ,,, i`m just pointing out what i believe "WILL" become a big problem in the not so distant future (as it has already stared to be)---> this is not the first, nor 2nd,,, nor 3rd frame i`ve seen with major cracking problems

If you all remember the Jeagar brothers building that Suzi powered mini years ago,,, when it was white originally,,, then they painted it that maroon colour, then some young fella bought it & then Con bought it & then he sold it onto someone else,,, etc etc etc

I know that car really well & it was constantly plagued with frame cracks & poor handling issues,,, just ask Con how much money he spent trying to combat the problems

this frame & body cracking & poor handling issue is just not going to go away unless a decent design subframe has been created & maybe "standardised"

If i didn`t make all these dam twinky things i would have our jap engine transplant frame finished by now

ok,,, rant over,,, i`m off surfing thursday morning , gone till sunday,,, hold of bad mouthing my Know-It-All_Smart-Arse_attitude till i`m gone ok?

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.

over 162,000 km's on the clock now (speedo a bit inaccurate but you get the idea - heaps!). I think it had about 110,000km's when i bought it, not sure how much driving had been done between Brad completing the conversion and selling the car.

When i list issues ive had, including frame issues, there have been a few, but when i consider the amount of hard daily driving and assorted motor sport events that ive done, i consider it a reliable car with a reliable frame.

The alternator bracket is an unfortunate set-up for a couple of reasons, but the engine frame itself broke on one occasion and since being re-welded and a couple of very basic additional supports being installed, no further problems.

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1972 Leyland Clubman, 4EFTE 1330cc Turbo, 220Hp on 17psi
(1/4 mile: 13.8s @108mph @168Hp)

BIGBADS motor producing 380 horsepower was not solid mounted. I never understood the logic behind needing to solid mounted it in a mini if it was not solid mounted in the car from whence it came.

Who knows?

Not crap bagging the car. I think Dean went balls out with it. The fella who owns it now (sorry, I've forgotten your name) has really secured a nice package for what is an incredible price considering what has been spent. In terms of the overall modifications to the car the frame is prolly the easiest thing to change/correct.......

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But he's thriving and striving and hugging the turns.

In those subframes which have failed due to weld cracks, is there a common area in which this has occured? Or is the range of HP in those engines too varied to make a judgement like that?

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-Alan
I blame my dad for my love of minis. I think I was conceived in the back seat of one
I also blame my Dad for me being 6' 1" - not really the optimum height for driving a Mini.