Agreed that unsprung weight should be kept to a minimum.

The unsprung weight is not something that needs to be considered when talking about torque steer and the effects of the scrub radius though. It's simply the difference in force (being applied by the diff to each wheel) multiplied by the scrub radius.

I think a torsen diff as apposed to the std 4EFTE diff should still make a difference to torque steer. If you modified (implanted) dampers you could further battle the road imperfection problem.

all IMO obviously!

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Answer the Question....
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Both Mini Mad and I both have LSD's fitted
A damper doesn't matter how good it is will not hold the entire tyre surface incontact with the road surface if half the tyre is on a rise on the road surace and the other half is in a hollow and this is where the scub radius effects things and will cause the wheel to turn. This generally doesn't happen unless you have a fair amount of power and torque, and you are probably not going to experience this with an A series.
Have a look at all new front wheel drive cars and have a look how much of a scub radius they have, it will be close to zero.

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4efte powered Clubman
supercharged 998 race car

No, you're dead right, that is where you'd need an Anti-roll Bar (ARB).

I'm not arguing that scrub radius has nothing to do with torque steer, just trying to create a discussion about other ways to avoid differing loads on the drive wheels.

Nor am i saying you can eliminate the torque steer simply with a better diff, however directly compare an LSD with no diff at all and there would have to be a change in the amount of torque steer experienced.

Out of interest did you run the standard 4EFTE diff first? Did you notice any changes in torque steer when you went to the LSD?

In summary, ways to reduce torque steer (IMO) would be to
a. put in an LSD,

b. install a damper and ARB system

c. as you say, reduce scrub radius so when the tyres aren't evenly loaded the amount of torque steer experienced is minimised. Does anyone know how wide a wheel can fit in a clubby guard, while maintaining near zero scrub radius?

d. buy a steering wheel that is twice the diameter - voila half the torque steer experienced by the driver!!

I guess i was just looking at other ways of eliminating the problem prior to the power getting to the ground.

New FWD cars probably have no scrub radius because the people driving don't want any feedback or "feel", in addition anything that weighs more than a mini and has a reasonable scrub radius will be more difficult to park.

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Answer the Question....
BUT always Question the Answer

Unfortunately in the real world 200HP in a 700Kg FWD car = Torque steer

I ran the standard diff before the LSD and the LSD just means you're going faster while torque steering

The main reason is the rubber/nolathane bushings are no match for the power and the suspension geometry changes all over the place causing a lot of the torque steer.

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Starlet Conversion:
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15484

Mini mad, have you had the luxury of running different wheels on that car as a direct comparison?

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Answer the Question....
BUT always Question the Answer

I've driven it with 13x6s +8 offset (the wheels always on the car) and also with 13x7's -7 offset i believe. 13x7's are worse.

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Starlet Conversion:
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15484

ground effects are you taking the piss? you may want to try a flux capacitor.



i feel dumber just by reading this.



A - possibly will in theory in reality it makes little difference only the speed will be greater as mini mad has said.

B - yeah a front sway bar will lift inner wheel which will create more torque steer.

C - good idea listen to 92 he is king.

D - sure lets hope you are a midget so you can steer the thing.



yes they don't want feel or a car that swaps lanes under power.

Don't trust me or anyone else who's done it before i am sure you can overcome physics.

the gog

o goody,,, there are more people arguing & it`s not me this time

keep going,,, it makes interesting reading

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.

Having ridden in a 200+HP ATW 4EFTE Mini in wet and dry, I'm amazed that engineers sign off on cars that can change lanes whenever you gun it... IMO they are a danger to themselves and everybody else on the road.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

Dr, that's because they don't when they are engineered. You get them signed off and registered with a stock motor.

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1964 Morris 850, 1330 Supercharged - 81.8hp atws.
1975 Leyland Mini S 1100S powered - Nice and reliable.
1977 Leyland Mini LS - Project LS-T

What? As i said earlier, all i was trying to do was create an intelligent discussion on other methods of reducing torque steer. Obviously i came to the wrong place!

I see you offered no real intellect, nor are you willing to offer suggestions in ways to reduce torque steer. Which is what i was after opposed to simply saying you feel dumber for reading it.

And if you read back a few posts you'll note that i explicitly asked someone with experience whether they'd tested an identical vehicle with different sized wheels for torque steer.

Oh and for the record i'm the last person that would be trying to defy physics, having studied it comprehensively.

In retrospect I may be incorrect about the ARB, but the point i was trying to make is if you attempt to evenly load tyres (which is the aim of most suspension designs along with trying to keep contact with the road) you should be able to reduce the chances of torque steer.

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Answer the Question....
BUT always Question the Answer

you came to the right place just with the wrong attitude, you don't want a intellegent discussion all you seem to be doing is telling the people that have done it before that they don't know crap and you know better.




I don't have to. the others on here are more than capeable of explaining and have already done so.



you may well have studied physics along with others on here but you obviously don't have any real world experience.and it shows.

try listening to what 92 and minimad have to say rather than telling them what they have already experienced does not mean dick . you might find people a bit more receptive.

the gog

using a specially made aluminium drop tank that utilises a rear difuser/splitter and a plastic underlay that clips onto the sports pack body kit i aim to reduce the drag underneath the car in a attempt to create ground effect
if it works for ferraris and the acclaimed lotus exige
why not a mini

[Note This is an underside pic shot from a 3d CAD program]

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1969 Blue Mini K, 1330cc, Weber 45, polished aluminum roll cage, Race seats, 4 point harness, full rewire incorporating 8 fuses, 6 relays and new headlights just needs tyres front shocks and a windscreen til re-register

Nice one. What program ya got there?

What ratio of area do you hope to get from inlet to outlet for diffuser effects?

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Answer the Question....
BUT always Question the Answer

possably because these car actually have some top end shazzam an d are built to go around a track
the gog