Dan, that is the strange thing they look like they are greys, but they have the NASA symbol on them and something about flux capacitor? I will check for sure tonight but I think last time I checked they were greys...

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225hp atw on 14psi. 1/4 Mile no idea. Take one 1971 Mini Clubman, one Starlet GT Halfcut, Simmer over a warm MIG Welder, and Voila Minstar! www.mpdesign.id.au

Matt,

Only just found my way back to this thread.. sorry we didn't meet up on the weekend.

That graph is just insane.. the power difference is unbelievable.. great work

hi Guys,

Josh, I owe you an apology. I thought that you were running a TD04L like mine (and Matt's previous), so this was my basis of the comparison. I assumed incorrectly - sorry about that. I have always wonndered how you squeezed your TD04L in the front there where I am having so much trouble getting mine to fit (Matt and I have discussed this at length BTW), and now I understand why....!

Josh, when you talk about engine development, how much more HP do you want. I was of the opinion between 175-200hp would have been more than enough (or is this some kind of payback because you didnt win the Sate of Origin?)

I always used the Austarlet horsepower listings as a guide, and it seemed the TD04L and the 440c injectors with an aftermarket ECU was a great mix (and fairly inexpensive to boot) <--- just my $0.02 though!

Matt - 260Nm is a fair amount of torque for such a small displacement engine - I think your quarter times will reflect this - good luck!

Cheers,
Tricky

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"Not Speeding Officer..........Qualifying"

Yeah Sam a pity, but it was unregistered so we couldn't have gone for a run anyway so probably worked out well. I am getting a day pass for Saturday if the rego sticker doesn't turn up today. So Cotter run here we come. But hey what an outcome, I am well happy and it was as you said worht the wait. We must get together and compare.

And yes Tricky 260Nm is pretty damn good for a 1.3. I think that is the difference I have noticed is that it pulls so hard not because of an increase in power so much but by the looks of it an increase in torque, she just goes. Even when it was putting out 185hp it did go as hard as it does now even comparatively.

Bring on the 1/4 mile. It's funny Phil at Pulse when I asked his opinion on quarter mile times said 11's with slicks and 12s with street tyres but I think he is being a bit optimistic!! Still one way to find out. As with all our cars it is getting the power to the ground...Oh and driver skill...

Cheers

Matt

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225hp atw on 14psi. 1/4 Mile no idea. Take one 1971 Mini Clubman, one Starlet GT Halfcut, Simmer over a warm MIG Welder, and Voila Minstar! www.mpdesign.id.au

Haha it's ok Tricky no offense taken

Not sure whether i like you two talking about me Hope it's all good. 440cc would be perfect, but the 560's were readily available and cheap because my car was getting tuned and it ran out of fuel at about 6pm the night before the dyno (i too leave things until last minute) so the shop kindly threw in some 560's that they had so they could complete the tune on the higher boost and get me to the dyno day. To go anything else would have meant missing the dyno day and also more money and the tuner assures me there are no problems with the Autronic controlling them and i agree.

Here is a dyno sheet with the boost curve on it, the power curves look very simlar to me.


To be honest i don't take much acceptance of dynosheets, they are good for the curve/boost/AFR but the power output is not accurate at all IMO. My car did over 40 dyno runs during it's tune and the power output is just all over the place. Same reason why i think the Austarlet listings although a good guide are a bit misleading - especially with all those "TDO4's" on there and half the people dont know what they've got.

I think if i can keep the responsive boost it could do with a bit more top end so i am keeping an eye out for a VF series turbo to match with the other motor. I wont be putting another motor in until this one dies so it will depend how long this one lasts at least, but i will slowly churn away at building a forged motor as punishing the stocker on 20psi can't be good for longetivity. I am going to work on the other head and get some better flow and cams with a nice solid bottom end on the rebuilt motor so that i don't have to worry about it ever again - only looking for mild gains (maybe some NOS for the extra top end at the drags)..while trying to keep a nice powerband but mainly for reliability. I am quite happy with the power though and i'm moving to focus on setup now as well.

Can't wait to see your car at WSID Matt

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Starlet Conversion:
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15484

Nah Josh, nothing personal just discussing comparisons of TD04 vs the KKR as I have a KKR as you know and went that route because the TD04 I previously had was huge and Tricky was facing the same dilemma regarding space and we were referring to all the TDO4 starlets on the dyno list. We were both under the impression yours was a large TD04 and hence how did you make it fit! If I had a problem with you Josh I would just come around and loosen your wheel nuts (yes kidding!) .

As for the dyno sheet thing, yeah I agree to a certain point but at the end of the day you are really only comparing gains on "your" car, but I don't think the results of my runs were that varied. He brought up the roughly a dozen he did and overlayed them, obviously he was tuning it but the changes were incremental but the curves were pretty much identical. I still think you can use different sheets for comparison especially if they are all done on the same brand of dyno, for instance I am prepared to believe that my engine IS 6-7hp down on Deans. Might be slightly more or slightly less but I think you can compare them, especially as they were both done on DD dynos.

The forgie motor will be a cracker, ah to have the resources to do that (both time and money), but with over $4K blown just getting the Adaptronic put in that is me well and truly done.

Josh I will get your mobile off you at some stage before Sept and we can organise the WSID thing, should be awesome. Also I believe yours got 700Kg flat on the weighbridge? Mine got 740Kg (even though it has no backseat go figure.

Cheers

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225hp atw on 14psi. 1/4 Mile no idea. Take one 1971 Mini Clubman, one Starlet GT Halfcut, Simmer over a warm MIG Welder, and Voila Minstar! www.mpdesign.id.au

Haha good to know, i'm really happy that you have sorted out your fueling and got some good power. I think it's best rather than to chase more power to sort out the rest of the setup with the power we have before going bigger and better.

I think we will be close to same weight if not mine being more as it was weighed dry

I reckon you will run similar times to me or at least capable with only two things stopping it from getting a good time which are what tires you will run and the lack of LSD. I am interested to see what difference it makes.

I made 182HP on a brand new 4WD DD dyno 7pm the night before (My readouts were fluctuating due to my tires getting hot and slipping on the rollers after 40 runs) and then the next day made 167HP on MRC's DD dyno. I just don't trust them.

I have a bit more to do to get the car where i want it, then it will be a very slow process for the forgie as i want to save up for a house

I'll PM you my number.

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Starlet Conversion:
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15484

One explanation may be ambient temperature, I got mine dynod once down here at midday in a Canberra winter (ambient 12C), then they did another one later that night approx 9pm (ambient 2C), figure was 8Kw different. This would be exacerbated by your barrell, as the fan while effective for FMIC would have little effect on the barrell itself and I believe your rad for it is in the guard...Just my 2c but time of day does make a difference. I even notice the difference between a Canberra winter and a summer. Canberra winter 10C days, Canberra sumer 38C days.

At night in Canberra (eg minus 3 last night) bloody awesome.

Cheers

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225hp atw on 14psi. 1/4 Mile no idea. Take one 1971 Mini Clubman, one Starlet GT Halfcut, Simmer over a warm MIG Welder, and Voila Minstar! www.mpdesign.id.au

I was at a dyno day somewhere one day watching some twin supercharged supras going at it... One of them had the intercooler all frosted up for the first run and ran a 975hp or some stupid number like that and then for the second run it was about 40hp less. So in my opinion dyno's are useful for a tune and getting the basic figures but you can fudge the hell out of them

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If you want more inches, stroke it
Life's a garden.... Dig It!
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20746

Damn you two - cant wait to wade in here with some figures!

I hope I do as good as you both!!

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"Not Speeding Officer..........Qualifying"

I am seeing some very impressive figures here guys, and a litle scary too.
As far as figures from the dyno, take the actual numbers not too seriously. A dyno is great to give before and after comparisons and can assist a competent tuner to extract the best from your motor. Temperature, humidity, can make huge differences to your power output, ask any drag racer, they test for this and setup accordingly.
I used to race speedway with a car running a supercharged motorcycle engine. It was a bullet most of the time, but scary fast on a crisp night, I didnt need a dyno to tell the difference, crisp cool air equals heaps more oxygen equals bigger bang.. love it... and the car was always super fast at Fraser Park.... You Canberra guys must know how cold it was there at night.
Back to the dyno, don't take the figures from one machine and put it against the figures from another machine you could be very disappointed if both vehicles were run one after the other on the same machine the result would be somewhat different.
I just want to learn what I can to get mine up to my chosen HP from everyone that contributes to this forum.
There seems to be a big emphasis on peak HP, fellas it is all about torque if you want to really go fast... Matt, you commented about torque and performance... that is what whacks you back in the seat.
Thats enough from me, great to see this lively debate.
Cheers
Michael

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Motivate me to get this done... back in Sydney again...

Hi All,

I obviously didn't make myself clear, but you have all nailed it, as you say gordo, the results can be messed with but really not the dyno more what the conditions are, putting ice on the cooler will be reflected in the result and as it disapates this is also reflected in results, not the dyno being fudged but the car and the conditions it is operating under. As for the comment on the barrel I merely meant that having an FMIC in a dyno situation will be more effective because they simply use a big fan at the front of the car. This does not reflect the car going along and so is to the detriment I feel of Josh setup in a dyno situation because obviously going along in on road situation is going to deliver the kind of air flow over his barrel radiator that would not be replicated in a dyno bay with a big fan.

Also let's close off this discussion as I was not my intention for this to become a mine is better than Josh's or vice versa. I am happy and I am sure Josh you are too. And yes Mike I remember the two toes I lost from frostbite at Fraser Park.

Cheers

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225hp atw on 14psi. 1/4 Mile no idea. Take one 1971 Mini Clubman, one Starlet GT Halfcut, Simmer over a warm MIG Welder, and Voila Minstar! www.mpdesign.id.au