ausmini
https://ausmini.com/forums/

High zinc oil
https://ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=99621		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  clip [ Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  High zinc oil
Did a search here, but didn’t find anything about this oil. Does anyone know anything about it? I just found it at local autopro. The sales guy recommended it for the mini.
https://www.nulon.com.au/products/premium-mineral-engine-oils/high-zinc-mineral-25w-60-street-and-track-engine-oil
Super high zinc, but also says has added Molybdenum Dithiocarbamate (Moly DTC) as well as the extra levels of Zinc (ZDDP). Didn’t buy it though.
Author:  Bill B [ Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: High zinc oil
Don't have personal experience though most Nulon products seem to be good. My son uses several of them in his turboed AWD cars. That one is the right viscosity for normal minis engines but the real test is whether the gearbox likes it too.
Author:  TK [ Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: High zinc oil
I think that I remember it's a no no.

What would the sales guy know? He probably doesn't even know that a mini shares the same oil for engine and gearbox!
Author:  clip [ Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: High zinc oil
Yep, it's the gearbox that worries me. And you're right about the sales guy, although he knew the gearbox shared the engine oil, he also told me that they had a wet clutch :?
Author:  Bill B [ Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: High zinc oil
clip wrote:
Yep, it's the gearbox that worries me. And you're right about the sales guy, although he knew the gearbox shared the engine oil, he also told me that they had a wet clutch :?


He is partly right: some minis do have a wet clutch, sometimes. But it's repairable.
Author:  timmy201 [ Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: High zinc oil
We did a tour of the Nulon factory - the guys there seemed to know their stuff really well so you can always contact them directly
Author:  Clownman [ Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: High zinc oil
This is a most interesting subject.
Anything above 1000 ppm (parts per million) is considered high zinc.
1500 ppm is probably ideal.
Anything above 1800 will cause damage.
You need to consider start up flow and protection.
This leads to a 10w 15w oil.
The gearbox requires thinner oil for needle roller bearings and thicker oil for ball race bearings.
Once again, a compromise.
There is another consideration not often referred to and that is the actual film strength in the bearings at 150 degrees C, referred HT/HS TEST (HIGH TEMP/HIGH SHEAR).
There is evidence that this is more critical than viscosity.
Some suggest a diesel or to meet these criteria (API CI-4 or later).
The myth about synthetic not being good for minis was true many years ago with the 1st synthetics.
I personally use a 10w50 or a 15w60.
Anything with zinc and phosphorous levels above 1000ppm with be ok.
I change the oil and filter every 6 months regardless of mileage.
Never give your wheels too much stick until it reaches what you consider to be normal running oil pressure or TEMP if you have a temp gauge.
Author:  FNQ [ Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: High zinc oil
Hi Clownman

I agree with most of what you are saying- however I still haven't heard of many people successfully running synthetic in a mini - ( including some bike oils) The sticking point ( or lack thereof) is usually the diff and syncro hubs allowing slip and grinding of gears respectively. The modern mineral oils using good base stock and a good addition of zddp still seem the safe bet. Could you tell me/us what brand of oil you use?

Now that many more dog boxes are out on the track - thus eliminating the rapid wearing synchros - i wonder if other racers are trying some synthetics?

Full disclosure - track car runs Brad Penn Racing mineral oil 20W-50 ? and i like Driven mineral oils as well.
Street Cars used to run Castrol Edge without titanium and now anything approximating 20w-50 and high zddp etc and if needed i add moly. Cheers Darryl
Author:  Clownman [ Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: High zinc oil
Morning mate,
If you considered the mini manual gearbox in isolation, you'd gravitate towards a diesel oil due to the higher levels of ZDDP.
However, anything nothing greater than 150-180 ppm.
You've then got to consider the damage at cold start up to The engine.
The higher level detergents in diesel would only be of concern if your engine was in relatively poor condition and The subsequent cleaning of the internals may result in oil leakage.
I have gravitated towards Penrite HPR 15 15W-60 and HPR 10 10W50.
Engine is a fair tune, non-s +60, lightened conrods, flywheel, pressure plate, 1.5 roller rockers etc
20 y.o. build, needing a freshen up soon.
I think the bad rap on synthetics relates to the earlier one's.
Cheers Peter
Author:  TheBoy [ Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: High zinc oil
The trouble with modern synthetics is they tend to leak past the seals used in minis. I don’t know whether this is due to it being too slippery or the design behind the way it seals. Every mini I’ve ever worked on that had synthetic in it leaked like a sieve past the primary gear seal and the timing cover seal.
Author:  Clownman [ Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: High zinc oil
Yeah, look it's an interesting debate.
In reality, to meet a certain API classification for e.g.., all oils need to pass tests for wear, corrosion, seal comparability, evaporation, shear etc , etc.
Comparing the same spec and viscosity, synthetic oils are superior to mineral.
I think whatever you use, mineral, semi of full synthetic, ensure it has at least 1000 ppm zinc and phosphorous, and change it twice a year, regardless of mileage.
Lean towards a 10w 15w for cold start benefits.
I've had some success using Loctite gasket eliminate as well as the gaskets when building motors.
Just a bit harder to get some components apart when dismantling.
Author:  clip [ Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: High zinc oil
Clownman wrote:
This is a most interesting subject.
Anything above 1000 ppm (parts per million) is considered high zinc.
1500 ppm is probably ideal.
Anything above 1800 will cause damage.

So given that this Nulon oil is 1900, then not a good idea, although the added moly might be a benefit?
Author:  hpal [ Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: High zinc oil
So what about the old Gulf Western 20w50? I've been told it's one of the best for the mini
Author:  Clownman [ Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: High zinc oil
Afternoon mate,
The research paper I'm referring to says;
S.A.E. "SOCIETY OF AUTOMOTIVE ENGINEERS" p
1800 ppm is the max' limit most steel will withstand without damage., 2000 ppm has been shown to cause serious damage to camshaft and gears".
Author:  clip [ Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: High zinc oil
Clownman wrote:
Afternoon mate,
The research paper I'm referring to says;
S.A.E. "SOCIETY OF AUTOMOTIVE ENGINEERS" p
1800 ppm is the max' limit most steel will withstand without damage., 2000 ppm has been shown to cause serious damage to camshaft and gears".

Thanks, this is really interesting, although a tad confusing for my small brain. I used the Gulf Western as a first change after the rebuild and whatever running in oil was used, but at $19 for 4 litres I’m not thinking it’s anything special and can’t find any specs for it regarding zinc level. I’m about to drop it out and trying to decide on what good oil I should be running for normal intervals, which is about every 3000 k’s for me.

So the Nulon is now off the list (I’m really glad I asked as I was being convinced it would be the best for the mini), so thank you Clownman for you info and clarification.
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC + 10 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/