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Spray Painter expertise needed please! Updated with photos..
https://ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=95001		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  deluxe67 [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:14 am ]
Post subject:  Spray Painter expertise needed please! Updated with photos..
I think I have mentioned on the forum before that a few years ago I took my car on a roadtrip to Bali from Melbourne via East Timor. All up the car was in Indonesia for about a year and a half.
While it was there I had it stripped back to bare metal, rust cut out and repainted.
The work was done at the Mitsubishi dealership in Denpasar because it was the only place I could find with a proper paintbooth.
Sadly, the paint has begun to fail.
The finish coat is delaminating/ cracking from the undercoat in straight lines that grow in length and new ones are appearing. There is no bubbling at all, just delaminating (there is no bog in the car and the base coat looks fine..). It's as if the adhesion between the coats is failing. I'm guessing maybe excessive humidity was the cause? I don't know.
It's only happening on the doors, boot and bonnet. The bodyshell paint is fine (was painted at a different time).
So I'm going to have to redo the affected panels. I have 250ml of the original paint that is labelled Ferrari Red CM 4000. The problem is that paint code doesn't seem to exist and 250ml is not enough paint for the job. Googling produces zero results.
My question is, is it possible to get an exact match using the sample I have? Is there an instrument that can analyze the paint and specify the precise formula of my paint? Or is it a situation of finding an expert painter who can closely match the colour by eye?
My knowledge of paint is close to zero and would very much appreciate advice on what I can/ should do..
(one wag said "take it back to the buggers that did and tell 'em to redo it" haha!). That, obviously, is not an easy option!

Thanks for your thoughts,

Cheers

Michael
Author:  too_much_boost [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spray Painter expertise needed please!
If you took the paint and a painted panel (eg bonnet) to an automotive paint supplier/specialist, many have a machine that can match paint. Also they will have access to better paint guides than the internet seems to provide
Author:  winabbey [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spray Painter expertise needed please!
too_much_boost wrote:
If you took the paint and a painted panel (eg bonnet) to an automotive paint supplier/specialist, many have a machine that can match paint. Also they will have access to better paint guides than the internet seems to provide

... or the rear number plate flap may be easier if the paint on it is in good order.
Author:  too_much_boost [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spray Painter expertise needed please!
Yep agreed. I took in my bonnet for paint matching as it was the rear number plate flap that needed painting! :)
Author:  deluxe67 [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spray Painter expertise needed please!
So in peoples experience, the technology is out there to get a very close match? Identical would be wonderful but I'm not expecting miracles... Any ideas on why the paintwork has failed the way it has?
Thanks
Michael
Author:  Womble72 [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spray Painter expertise needed please!
Yeah alot of Paintshop and retailers are running Spectrophotometers. These take a snapshot of the colour from 5 different angles and turn it into numbers like L=+98,a=+0.49,b=-0.79 then they search for like colours
Finding a formula is a 5 min search but it kind of like golf the machine gets you near it but you need a good colour matcher to putt in it.
Delamination between base and clear could be a lot of things but humidity comes out in small blisters..Like pin heads.
My best guess is mixing products. Exactly how old is the paintwork.
Author:  deluxe67 [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spray Painter expertise needed please!
Thanks Womble.

The paint is 2 maybe 2 1/2 years old max. And the boys did their best to do a great job. I speak Indonesian, supervised the operation and quickly established a "bonus" system to be paid weekly based on performance. The time spent on prep was huge. For sure the guys would be gutted at what's happened, they put so much effort into the Mini.... We all became good friends and they loved that car....
To clarify, it's the red colour coat delaminating from the base/ undercoat..
Cheers

Michael
Author:  Womble72 [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spray Painter expertise needed please!
Oh sorry got it now... 2.5 years is too short.
Sometimes there are bad batches of paint it happens.
That's why it's so important to not mix brands and follow recommendations.. Getting paint companies to admit fault is really hard even if you can prove you did it right.
Do you know the brand of paint that was used?
Author:  Lindsay_Palmer [ Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spray Painter expertise needed please!
deluxe67 wrote:
I think I have mentioned on the forum before that a few years ago I took my car on a roadtrip to Bali from Melbourne via East Timor. All up the car was in Indonesia for about a year and a half.
While it was there I had it stripped back to bare metal, rust cut out and repainted.
The work was done at the Mitsubishi dealership in Denpasar because it was the only place I could find with a proper paintbooth.
Sadly, the paint has begun to fail.
The finish coat is delaminating/ cracking from the undercoat in straight lines that grow in length and new ones are appearing. There is no bubbling at all, just delaminating (there is no bog in the car and the base coat looks fine..). It's as if the adhesion between the coats is failing. I'm guessing maybe excessive humidity was the cause? I don't know.
It's only happening on the doors, boot and bonnet. The bodyshell paint is fine (was painted at a different time).
So I'm going to have to redo the affected panels. I have 250ml of the original paint that is labelled Ferrari Red CM 4000. The problem is that paint code doesn't seem to exist and 250ml is not enough paint for the job. Googling produces zero results.
My question is, is it possible to get an exact match using the sample I have? Is there an instrument that can analyze the paint and specify the precise formula of my paint? Or is it a situation of finding an expert painter who can closely match the colour by eye?
My knowledge of paint is close to zero and would very much appreciate advice on what I can/ should do..
(one wag said "take it back to the buggers that did and tell 'em to redo it" haha!). That, obviously, is not an easy option!

Thanks for your thoughts,

Cheers

Michael


I have seen this happen when the recommended film builds are exceeded.

CM4000 sounds like a Mitsubishi paint code to me, I'll try to remember to check tomorrow.
Author:  AJ [ Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spray Painter expertise needed please!
Was it thoroughly cleaned with a good quality surface prep and a tack cloth before applying the colour
Author:  deluxe67 [ Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spray Painter expertise needed please!
Hi Lindsay,

"I have seen this happen when the recommended film builds are exceeded."

That may explain it. Because of my "bonus" system, a lot of paint went on that car. Film thickness is, well, thick... My cunning plan may have backfired...
Any luck on the paint code?

AJ,

"Was it thoroughly cleaned with a good quality surface prep and a tack cloth before applying the colour"? I don't know about the tack cloth, but it is a professional paint shop? Pretty sure the proper surface prep cleaning was done..

How much paint should I organize to paint 2 doors, boot and bonnet? Would 1 L do it?

Thanks for your advice, much appreciated

Cheers

Michael
Author:  Mokesta [ Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spray Painter expertise needed please!
deluxe67 wrote:
So in peoples experience, the technology is out there to get a very close match? Identical would be wonderful but I'm not expecting miracles... Any ideas on why the paintwork has failed the way it has?
Thanks
Michael



I needed to match the paint on one of my cars. It was only painted a few years earlier and I had been given a nice flat piece of metal painted at the same time as the car. I didn't have a paint code.

The result was an expensive 2 litre tin that almost matches.... I was painting the sills, number plate bracket and some other bits like under the bumpers. If you look you can see the difference but I don't think it jumps out at you.

So, in my experience, paint matching is good but not perfect. I wouldn't be wanting to paint a guard next to a door that had original paint.

M
Author:  simon k [ Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spray Painter expertise needed please!
just supposing... how smooth was the base coat? if they sanded it with ultra fine grit paper then the topcoat wouldn't have any lumps or bumps to bond to

I'm doing the seams on my car and the instructions for the paint say to use no finer than 600 grit
Author:  deluxe67 [ Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spray Painter expertise needed please!
Hello Simon,

I don't know the answer to that question.
As I said before, it is a professional paint shop so I assume they'd got all that stuff right. I'm tending to think as Lindsay pointed out, maybe too much paint (my fault) was applied exceeding recommended film thickness resulting in cracking..?
Please, without meaning to sound insulting, is any respondent to this thread a professional spray painter?
I do appreciate all input regardless..

Cheers
Michael
Author:  Mokesta [ Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spray Painter expertise needed please!
deluxe67 wrote:
Hello Simon,

I don't know the answer to that question.
As I said before, it is a professional paint shop so I assume they'd got all that stuff right. I'm tending to think as Lindsay pointed out, maybe too much paint (my fault) was applied exceeding recommended film thickness resulting in cracking..?
Please, without meaning to sound insulting, is any respondent to this thread a professional spray painter?
I do appreciate all input regardless..

Cheers
Michael


Your need user Phat Kat. He will know. I haven't seen him around here for ages. Maybe try to pm him, he might have notifications on.

M
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