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I think I have solved my disk brake low pedal problem
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Author:  jb007 [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  I think I have solved my disk brake low pedal problem

I recently overhauled my 7.5" disks and callipers with new S/S pistons and seals etc. At the rear was new slave cylinders. A new MK3 Lockheed brake booster completed the rebuild.

The system was both power and vacuum bled (have both systems), rear shoes adjusted.

Problem: I have to do a very quick pump of the brake pedal to get full pedal height. The brakes are not spongy though.

Anyway cruising the internet for some possible cure to my problem, I came across several reports of the need to exercise the calliper seals, by exerting a pressure on the brake pedal for a period of time.

Not having one of those devices you see wheel alignment specialist use to apply pressure to to the brakes Image
I used a axle stand wedged between the brake pedal and seat.

Skipping forward by around 11 hours, the brake pedal is now very high. In my garage rocking the car back and forth, I could brake it by just the movement in my big toe (the Jim test!).

Road test proved a huge change in feel, I now have to get out of the habit of pumping the pedal as it is not needed.

Hopefully time will tell if this fix sticks.

Jim :D

Author:  simon k [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I have solved my disk brake low pedal problem

I was thinking it might be a dodgy seal, didn't realise you could fix them by holding pressure in the system - that's handy

my solution to holding the pedal down is a bit of allthread in some RHS, but that tool is nifty, might have to make one next time I need to bleed something

Author:  junior [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I have solved my disk brake low pedal problem

I have the same problem, I will be trying this

Author:  jb007 [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I have solved my disk brake low pedal problem

Another thing I found re rear wheel cylinder bleeding is its best to slacken the adjuster right off so it moves the trapped air closer to the bleed nipple by virtue of the cylinder moving closer to the nipple. :D


Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk

Author:  glenndunn [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I have solved my disk brake low pedal problem

So your saying just to keep pressure on the brake pedal for a few hours and that fixes the pump the pedal problem ?

Author:  DavidE [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I have solved my disk brake low pedal problem

jb007 wrote:
I recently overhauled my 7.5" disks and callipers with new S/S pistons and seals etc. At the rear was new slave cylinders. A new MK3 Lockheed brake booster completed the rebuild.

The system was both power and vacuum bled (have both systems), rear shoes adjusted.

Problem: I have to do a very quick pump of the brake pedal to get full pedal height. The brakes are not spongy though.

Anyway cruising the internet for some possible cure to my problem, I came across several reports of the need to exercise the calliper seals, by exerting a pressure on the brake pedal for a period of time.

Not having one of those devices you see wheel alignment specialist use to apply pressure to to the brakes Image
I used a axle stand wedged between the brake pedal and seat.

Skipping forward by around 11 hours, the brake pedal is now very high. In my garage rocking the car back and forth, I could brake it by just the movement in my big toe (the Jim test!).

Road test proved a huge change in feel, I now have to get out of the habit of pumping the pedal as it is not needed.

Hopefully time will tell if this fix sticks.

Jim :D


Did you use caliper assembly lube?

Author:  jb007 [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I have solved my disk brake low pedal problem

Yes i used lube. :D

Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk

Author:  jb007 [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I have solved my disk brake low pedal problem

glenndunn wrote:
So your saying just to keep pressure on the brake pedal for a few hours and that fixes the pump the pedal problem ?

Yep. It did for me.
DavidE wrote:
jb007 wrote:
I recently overhauled my 7.5" disks and callipers with new S/S pistons and seals etc. At the rear was new slave cylinders. A new MK3 Lockheed brake booster completed the rebuild.

The system was both power and vacuum bled (have both systems), rear shoes adjusted.

Problem: I have to do a very quick pump of the brake pedal to get full pedal height. The brakes are not spongy though.

Anyway cruising the internet for some possible cure to my problem, I came across several reports of the need to exercise the calliper seals, by exerting a pressure on the brake pedal for a period of time.

Not having one of those devices you see wheel alignment specialist use to apply pressure to to the brakes Image
I used a axle stand wedged between the brake pedal and seat.

Skipping forward by around 11 hours, the brake pedal is now very high. In my garage rocking the car back and forth, I could brake it by just the movement in my big toe (the Jim test!).

Road test proved a huge change in feel, I now have to get out of the habit of pumping the pedal as it is not needed.

Hopefully time will tell if this fix sticks.

Jim :D


Did you use caliper assembly lube?



Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk

Author:  jb007 [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I have solved my disk brake low pedal problem

I found this motorbike thread on the same subject http://www.southbayriders.com/forums/threads/120967/

The reply from a RobertHass I think hits the nail on the head.
Quote:
This is not about the system being under pressure, in fact if you place the system under hard pressure this trick may not give you the desired results. What you are doing is placing enough pressure to move the pistons/pads out to their limit of travel. now the system is completely full. By placing a hold on the lever at this time and waiting for gravity to allow the gas in the system to rise it will move all the way to the top and rest at the highest point. That will be very near to the return orifice of the MC blocked, now by the piston that is extended past the return port. When you release the lever in the morning the piston draws back and pulls that bubble into the reservoir port and the bubble s now heading up into the reservoir.


One final way to really help this trick is after you cut the zip tie. DO NOT PULL IN THE LEVER but gently place a thin screwdriver between the brake pad and the rotor and gently push the piston back into the caliper a small amount. This alone has the best chance of bleeding any gas out of the system.



All I can say is it made my brakes better. I've rebuilt both drum and disk brakes on Mini's and MGB's and to my recollection this is the best feel and pedal height I've had. :D

Edit: If you read all of the thread as per above, you will see it turns into a bit of chest beating and mental masturbation. I guess I will never really know what the science is behind this.

Author:  9YaTaH [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I have solved my disk brake low pedal problem

Very interesting :!: :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krD4hdGvGHM

Author:  jb007 [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I have solved my disk brake low pedal problem

9YaTaH wrote:


Yes, very interesting!

Author:  jb007 [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I have solved my disk brake low pedal problem

I was thinking of buying a brake/clutch jack tool like the previous image I posted, when I had an epiphany.

I had left over a 24" 600mm Craftright quick action clamp https://www.bunnings.com.au/craftright-600mm-2-piece-quick-action-clamp_p5860152 which work very well. I would put some rubber padding on the end that presses against the steering wheel, as to not mark it. Not bad for $20 (for 2, give one to a mate), and available at my favourite hardware store, Bunnings. You could also put a rubber stopper on the end that pushes against the pedal. :D

Looks like this:
Image

Author:  winabbey [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I have solved my disk brake low pedal problem

jb007 wrote:
I was thinking of buying a brake/clutch jack tool like the previous image I posted, when I had an epiphany.

I had left over a 24" 600mm Craftright quick action clamp https://www.bunnings.com.au/craftright-600mm-2-piece-quick-action-clamp_p5860152 which work very well. I would put some rubber padding on the end that presses against the steering wheel, as to not mark it. Not bad for $20 (for 2, give one to a mate), and available at my favourite hardware store, Bunnings. You could also put a rubber stopper on the end that pushes against the pedal. :D

Great idea. :idea: :)

Could you take both pieces off the bar, reverse them and then put them back? That way you have nice rubber pads pushing against the brake pedal and steering wheel (or whatever else you use for the anchor point).

Author:  jb007 [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I have solved my disk brake low pedal problem

winabbey wrote:
jb007 wrote:
I was thinking of buying a brake/clutch jack tool like the previous image I posted, when I had an epiphany.

I had left over a 24" 600mm Craftright quick action clamp https://www.bunnings.com.au/craftright-600mm-2-piece-quick-action-clamp_p5860152 which work very well. I would put some rubber padding on the end that presses against the steering wheel, as to not mark it. Not bad for $20 (for 2, give one to a mate), and available at my favourite hardware store, Bunnings. You could also put a rubber stopper on the end that pushes against the pedal. :D

Great idea. :idea: :)

Could you take both pieces off the bar, reverse them and then put them back? That way you have nice rubber pads pushing against the brake pedal and steering wheel (or whatever else you use for the anchor point).


Yes you can reverse them. I just did this to a spare, just involves removing a scroll pin on end, reversing the quick grip, and undoing the end one and reversing it. Wha la you will have this:
Image

It shall hence forth be known as: Jim's Brake/Clutch Jack Tool or just Tool #181! :lol:

Author:  slide [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I have solved my disk brake low pedal problem

I've used an adjustable steering wheel lock that were popular some years ago as a theft prevention device. Put it between the brake pedal and the steering wheel to lock the front brakes in order to free off a stubborn CV hub nut. Just make sure you've got the key to unlock it afterwards.

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