Just to be clear, this discussion wasn't meant to be about "which is the best oil pump to use". It was to seek comment about the apparent batch of problematical pumps that were modified and sold locally.
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| Cooper S Oil Pump Problem https://ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=92669 |
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| Author: | winabbey [ Wed May 18, 2016 3:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Cooper S Oil Pump Problem |
This is being posted on behalf of another member. Original Concentric oil pumps for the Cooper S (part AEG410) are no longer available new. In response an Australian Mini parts supplier is converting the pump for the smaller capacity A series (part GLP142) by swapping the central shaft for a longer one that matches the Cooper S pin drive camshaft. A batch of the converted pumps have been found by an Ausmini member to have a shaft that extends approx. 3 mm further out than an original Cooper S pump. This was discovered accidentally when assembling the engine without the pistons fitted. On this occasion the engine would not turn over because the longer oil pump spindle was forcing the camshaft against the thrust washer. Normally the pump is fitted last and one would simply turn the engine over using a spanner on the crankshaft pulley nut. Any resistance on the camshaft thrust washer caused by the longer shaft would probably not be noticed. A problem wouldn't arise until the engine had been running for a period, when it would be reasonable to assume that the camshaft thrust had just failed. Friction at both ends of the camshaft and oil pump would result in metal particles causing damage to the engine bearings, crank, etc . Below is a comparison of an original genuine Concentric brand Cooper "S" pump (on the bottom) and the replacement containing the longer pin pressed into a standard 850/998/1098 pump supplied by the Australian retailer (on the top). The original concentric oil pump's shaft is 27 mm, compared to the replacement at 30.85 mm, so the replacement shaft is around 3 mm longer. It would help the member to know if others have experienced this problem and assumed it was related to something other than a faulty oil pump. |
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| Author: | realmini [ Wed May 18, 2016 3:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cooper S Oil Pump Problem |
Yes, I have had this problem more than once in recent times. Got a different brand pump & problem gone. |
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| Author: | DavidE [ Wed May 18, 2016 4:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cooper S Oil Pump Problem |
realmini wrote: Yes, I have had this problem more than once in recent times. Got a different brand pump & problem gone. Which brand was that then? |
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| Author: | simon k [ Wed May 18, 2016 5:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cooper S Oil Pump Problem |
or get a spade drive oil pump and have one of Dr Mini's adapters welded into the cam... then next time you rebuild you can get another spade drive pump which are easy to get, and can be purchased in higher volume designs (metro turbo etc.) |
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| Author: | TK [ Wed May 18, 2016 5:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cooper S Oil Pump Problem |
is this any good? http://www.7ent.com/products/oil-pump-p ... eg410.html |
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| Author: | deluxe67 [ Wed May 18, 2016 5:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cooper S Oil Pump Problem |
Holy cow TK! That is expensive!! |
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| Author: | winabbey [ Wed May 18, 2016 6:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cooper S Oil Pump Problem |
Just to be clear, this discussion wasn't meant to be about "which is the best oil pump to use". It was to seek comment about the apparent batch of problematical pumps that were modified and sold locally.
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| Author: | TK [ Wed May 18, 2016 6:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cooper S Oil Pump Problem |
Doug, you opened a can of worms. Lots of us Cooper S engine owners are now very interested in what you have said and probably a bit concerned. Were these pumps modified locally or did they come from overseas? |
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| Author: | simon k [ Wed May 18, 2016 7:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cooper S Oil Pump Problem |
winabbey wrote: Just to be clear, this discussion wasn't meant to be about "which is the best oil pump to use". It was to seek comment about the apparent batch of problematical pumps that were modified and sold locally. but this is an internet forum.... they're meant to encourage people to go off on wild tangents and push their ideas!! |
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| Author: | winabbey [ Wed May 18, 2016 7:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cooper S Oil Pump Problem |
simon k wrote: winabbey wrote: Just to be clear, this discussion wasn't meant to be about "which is the best oil pump to use". It was to seek comment about the apparent batch of problematical pumps that were modified and sold locally. but this is an internet forum.... they're meant to encourage people to go off on wild tangents and push their ideas!! Simon - even though a bit tongue in cheek, I agree with your comment. It's always great for any discussion to take place. It means a healthy forum. In any case, I may not have worded my earlier statement correctly. I just didn't want the original question to be lost in a separate discussion. 
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| Author: | winabbey [ Wed May 18, 2016 8:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cooper S Oil Pump Problem |
TK wrote: Doug, you opened a can of worms. Lots of us Cooper S engine owners are now very interested in what you have said and probably a bit concerned. Were these pumps modified locally or did they come from overseas? A local modification on a UK sourced pump, as I understand it. The shaft is removed and replaced by a longer one so it suits a Cooper S engine. |
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| Author: | drmini in aust [ Thu May 19, 2016 6:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cooper S Oil Pump Problem |
I fitted one of these modified pumps a year ago and it fitted fine. You can now get an AEG410 billet pump from Karcraft, mkol ans others but the price is well north of $300. The 1275A+ slot drive pumps are good, steel backed, and cheap. But you do have to drill and tap another hole in an S block. |
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| Author: | Mk 2 S [ Fri May 20, 2016 5:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cooper S Oil Pump Problem |
Wow! This is serious ,if it is correct.Chances are though ,it would be a toss up as to whether it would wear the back out of the pump out first,being the softer metal,which would result in the filings being pumped directly into the bearings both cam and crank or the camshaft thrust plate would s*** itself. If this observation is correct,this silent problem probably would not arise for sometime ,possibly showing up with a drop in oil pressure first.Worth checking on assembly before installing the pistons, as most people install the Oil Pump last and then turn it over using a lever/spanner either on the crank.Although,if those pics are correct,sounds like it may be a problem. |
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| Author: | winabbey [ Fri May 20, 2016 8:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cooper S Oil Pump Problem |
drmini in aust wrote: I fitted one of these modified pumps a year ago and it fitted fine. The assumption is that it involves a batch of pumps, not all. That's why the question was asked here, to see if others have had a problem not realising it may have been because of the pump symptoms described. |
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| Author: | drmini in aust [ Fri May 20, 2016 10:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cooper S Oil Pump Problem |
winabbey wrote: drmini in aust wrote: I fitted one of these modified pumps a year ago and it fitted fine. The assumption is that it involves a batch of pumps, not all. That's why the question was asked here, to see if others have had a problem not realising it may have been because of the pump symptoms described. I realise that, was just pointing out that they did not have the problem back then. |
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