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| Gemini starter woes https://ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=92040 |
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| Author: | drmini in aust [ Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Gemini starter woes |
OK I have recently acquired a genuine s/h `Hitachi' Gemini starter. The solenoid has been taken off. I apparently do not have enough hands and fingers to refit the hairpin spring + plunger + flat washer that goes on/in there whilst the solenoid case is screwed on. Anybody here done it for beer money??? 
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| Author: | aaron [ Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gemini starter woes |
Chat to GRs mate Geoff. |
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| Author: | Convertible Mini [ Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gemini starter woes |
The easiest way of doing it is by removing the end bracket plus end plastic bush end cap and cerclip lifting the brushes and removing the field coil housing. Then lift the armature out, put fork lever and solenoid "Washer" + plunger on Starter drive, lower armature and solenoid (the Correct way up) back into housing and fit solenoid mounting bolts. The solenoid might need a bit of force to line up the 2 bolts due to the spring tension. Then re fit brushes and end cap same way as it was removed. The long way to do things is usually the simplest and most logical way. Cutting corners just frustrates people. |
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| Author: | drmini in aust [ Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gemini starter woes |
Thanks for that info Tony, as I want to strip, clean and lube it anyway. 
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| Author: | Convertible Mini [ Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gemini starter woes |
And when you fit it to a Mini make sure you wire it up using the original Mini slave solenoid as a starter relay or you will have a Voltage drop on your ignition switch circuit. Pre Engage starters will not pull in or engage properly most times without good supply from Ignition to solenoid coil activation terminal as on the pulling in stage the solenoid can draw up to 30 amps initially. Especially on an 40 + year old worn out ignition switch. |
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| Author: | drmini in aust [ Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gemini starter woes |
Thanks Tony, I got it together and it runs on the floor, the solenoid pulls the pinion into mesh OK. But, it doesn't pull it back out, and I can't see any return spring? All it has is that dirty big hairpin spring which the arm pivots against. Which only fits in one way. Is there supposed to be a return spring inside the solenoid, or behind the fork arm? Yes the fork is engaging the 2 lugs on the pinion assembly. |
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| Author: | Convertible Mini [ Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gemini starter woes |
There are no other springs with the Hitachi Starter. Sounds like you might have a Faulty solenoid . Is it throwing in and winding over like normal and when you let the Key go it hangs in mesh? If this is the case it has a short in the windings. I can tell you how to test it. |
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| Author: | Convertible Mini [ Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Testing Gemini starter solenoid |
A starter solenoid has two windings. Basically one pulls it in and the second one holds it in mesh while you hold the key in the start position. To test the two coils:- Remove Solenoid from starter. using a 12 V source like car battery and a couple of jumper leads. (1) Testing the Pulling winding. Connect Negative lead on the larger solenoid terminal that connects to the starter motor lead and positive on trigger terminal. This draws about 30 odd amps and pulls the plunger in hard (Large Spark) . Do not hold it connected too long. If it slams plunger in it is fine. (2) Testing holding winding.. Connect negative lead to solenoid Body and positive to trigger terminal this should pull solenoid plunger in softly and holds it in. Some solenoids might need some help to pull in. If it holds in it is fine. (3) Now for the most crucial test that not many know about. Connect Positive lead to the same large terminal that the starter motor lead connects to and the negative lead to the solenoid Body. This in theory is connecting the two internal windings in series and they cancel each other out and there will be no magnetic pull at all. While connected which will only give you a small spark help the plunger all the way home and there should be no pull at all. If it pulls in or holds in while connected like this the solenoid windings are shorted. Throw solenoid away and get a new one. Good luck finding a new one! |
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| Author: | drmini in aust [ Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gemini starter woes |
Thanks Tony, I will test as you say. It does throw back out slightly, maybe to 1/3 of the travel. It might be sticking on the splines? These are spiral, like in a Lucas starter. I suspect this is designed to throw it out. I will pull apart again and lube with powdered graphite. Solenoid that came with it (unattached) is brand new. It is marked `Unipoint 12V UN10005'. I also have the original solenoid (plastic cap and trigger terminal is broken) which looks exactly the same. |
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| Author: | drmini in aust [ Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gemini starter woes |
Success!  New solenoid's windings checked out OK, so I pulled the drive end back off, cleaned the bendix drive with throttle body cleaner then anointed it with powdered graphite. Now, it throws in and out perfectly. Thanks for the info Tony. 
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