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Help me sort out my suspension
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Author:  andyinparadise [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Help me sort out my suspension
Went for a drive through the Gold Coast Hinterland, ending up at the Tumbulgum Pub for lunch today.

With the family (myself and 3 passengers) not only is the ride pretty rough but the clearance beween the top of the rear wheels and the wheel arch is less than a centimetre. The ride is really hard and it certainly rattles your teeth.
Every little bump scrapes the rear tyres on the inside of the arch.

I know I have just described a typical Mini with 4 up!

I currently have Hi-Lo's only on the front and I would say the original cones all round.

Was thinking about adding Hi-Lo's to the rear and coil springs front and back.

What are your thoughts?

My ultimate setup is to be able to go for a drive with the family every weekend without the above problems.
Author:  drmini in aust [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
That is a bloody good pub, I ate there during Speed on Tweed last year. :D

I would fit Hi-Los to the back and check the cones are original shape, ie not collapsed.
As for converting to springs, I reckon for load carrying you will be disappointed.
If you just need more spring rate for load carrying, you could fit a hydro competition bumpstop kit to your dry rear arms. It's easy to do, you just need to tap 1 hole in each arm, and move the brake pipe to side of arm.
I did this mod to Mini Mad's Starlet Mini last year.
Author:  GT mowog [ Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:20 am ]
Post subject: 
Sounds like you were on the bump stops most of the way.

Even though you have Hi-los on the front, check the shape of the rubber donut, if it looks more like a pancake then change them for new ones, but becarful of some of the after market ones.

I'd also say you rear ones also look like pancakes, so replace these and I'd agree with the Doc in fitting Hi-los here too. You may need to tweek them up a little before going on the longer runs with a full house.

I wouldn't recommend coil-overs for street use. They'll make the ride too hard and give you a higher spring rate where you don't want it - in the rear - Handling would suffer.
Author:  drmini in aust [ Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
When you said `springs', I took it you meant the short ones MiniMania and Mini Spares Centre sell as a direct rubber cone replacement.
These things are only 1-1/2? coils, so IMO they will not have enough spring rate to carry a full load.
Author:  andyinparadise [ Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
So it looks like I will need Hi-Lo's for the rear and change all the rubber cones.
I would still like to get an opinion as to using coils/springs instead of rubber cones.

Is there someone on the Gold Coast or Brisbane that anyone can recommend to do it?
Author:  andyinparadise [ Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Do I also need to replace all the shocks?
Author:  GT mowog [ Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
andyinparadise wrote:
So it looks like I will need Hi-Lo's for the rear and change all the rubber cones.
I would still like to get an opinion as to using coils/springs instead of rubber cones.


Sorry I thought earlier you were meaning Coil Overs, not replacement springs.

IMO steer well clear. I did some research some years back with Better Springs (spring Manufacturer). They tested the rubber donut (a new one) with a standard trumpet fitted to get all the rates vs compression. They ran the numbers with a view to manufacturing springs and their reply was - Use Rubber - hmmmm funny about that!

Spring steel does not have sufficent elastisity without stressing.

(permanent deformation) with the required rate, the amount of travel and space to put it.

I was interested to see that these 'springs' are now on the market, however it appears that the technology still hasn't caught up. If you carfully read the information with them, they do not have anywhere new the sprung travel of the standard set up - even the standard set up is 'short' on travel (~5" at the front), and these springs reduce that further. This is necessary to prevent the springs from becoming 'stressed' .

You'd be very disappointed with springs in place of rubber.

If your shocks are shot then replace them. There are quite a few to choose from, but you might like to try a set of adjustable rate type (eg Spax or GAZ) so you can find what you are looking for.
Author:  Morris 1100 [ Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Another thing that has not come up about replacing the rubber springs with coil springs (or even coilovers) is the legal aspects of it.

As far as I can tell it is against the rules to change the type of spring without re-engineering the car.
Author:  AEG163job [ Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
Morris 1100 wrote:
As far as I can tell it is against the rules to change the type of spring without re-engineering the car.


No probs if you have a leaf-spring rear end - just use the good ol' lowering blocks.
Perfectly safe :lol:
Author:  TheMiniMan [ Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help me sort out my suspension
andyinparadise wrote:
Went for a drive through the Gold Coast Hinterland, ending up at the Tumbulgum Pub for lunch today.

With the family (myself and 3 passengers) not only is the ride pretty rough but the clearance beween the top of the rear wheels and the wheel arch is less than a centimetre. The ride is really hard and it certainly rattles your teeth.
Every little bump scrapes the rear tyres on the inside of the arch.

I know I have just described a typical Mini with 4 up!

I currently have Hi-Lo's only on the front and I would say the original cones all round.

Was thinking about adding Hi-Lo's to the rear and coil springs front and back.

What are your thoughts?

My ultimate setup is to be able to go for a drive with the family every weekend without the above problems.


ok Andy,,, if you`re serious about makjing it like you say then the way i would go is,,, find some decent 2nd hand donuts,,, not squished,,, not sagged,,, not sunken & rock hard,,,, But not New either... something nice condision,,, alreradys easoned but without being 45 years old & stuffed, but not brand new "springy to the moon" either

then fit those donuts with some of my own special "Soft-Foot" hi-los & a full set of KYB "Gas-adjust shocks,,, set up the ride height & "STD" spec,,, not too low,,, not to high & Bob`s your Aunty mate

you will have a lovely ride with just 2 people or 4,,, smooth & comfortable with both different loads,,, it will still handle nice because you are actually "Using" your correct amount of suspension travel, but without being almost "SOLID" like some minis are

for some reason people like rock hard, stiff suspension "Claiming" it to be "Better-Handling",,, well stutter bumping across the opposit side of the road whilst attemting to corner just isn`t my kettle of fish, nor is it my favourit way to corner a mini

minis have some 4" of suspension travel & if correctly fitted out & adjusted correctly, it will serve you well with "loaded" & "Un-loaded" conditions

the trick is in "Blend" of both the donut & the hi-lo condition/designs

Hee hee,,, "some" people on here will "Know" what i`m talking about,,, but sadly other won`t

ok,,, end of dribble,,, move along,,, nothing to see here,,, it was a private conversation & doesn`t concern you lot :-)
Author:  Phat Kat [ Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help me sort out my suspension
TheMiniMan wrote:
for some reason people like rock hard, stiff suspension "Claiming" it to be "Better-Handling",,, well stutter bumping across the opposit side of the road whilst attemting to corner just isn`t my kettle of fish, nor is it my favourit way to corner a mini


Sorry Matt, I couldn't help listening in on your private conversation there,, it must be my big ears,, I guess thats why my friends call me wing nut :) .. lazy bunch of bastar--- anyway...

Hey, just reading what you've written here regarding handling in mini's.... what is your opinion on wheel sizes and their impact on handling? Sorry I know its a little off topic andyinparadise, and I will promise to do my best not to run you thread into the grass :)

I personally have noticed a big difference in the handling between 10"wheels v's 12", but not many people I speak to realise that a ride can be ""Too"" stiff,,,, just wondering what your thoughts were?

(sorry andyinparadise, I promise I'll keep my cans of worms to myself :lol: If it helps I agree with what the Doc and mowog have said I can't comment on Matts product because I only know what he's mentioned about it here :wink: :lol:)
Author:  TheMiniMan [ Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
welll,,, seeing as you asked,,,, 12"s don`t have the "amount" of tyre that 10"s do,,, so yes, in general, it`s a "Firm-er" ride with 12"s,,, but !!!!!! ,,, that`s only dependant upon the dunuts, & the diam & radius of the hi-lo or strut fitted ,,, & the type & condition of the shock fitted

sooo many variables,,,, so many of those variables are sooo often wrongly implimented

small diam, sharp radii on the Hi-lo,,, will "Generally" induce a softer ride... add to that a soft-ish donut in good condition & you have a wonderfully lush "Road-soft" ride, much like a hydro (when set up right) & yet still handle quite well around corners, becvause that`s the nature of the mini , especially when it "CAN" use all it`s suspension travel like it`s meant too :-)

a large diam "gentle" radius hi-lo (with old hard donuts) will creat a firm-er or hard/ harsh/ stiff ride,,, add soft shocks & you have a bag of puss that bounces all over the road & won`t stay on line through our generally sh!tty crap bumpy un-maintained public roads

ok for a race track if you fit some decent quality shocks & set it all p for bitumen circuit work,,, bhut for a rad car??? sorry,,, but you`re evicted & you must leave the compound imediately

:-)

Horses for courses

12" are a bit more "Direct" in their initial "turn-in" tho :-)

Hey,,, but what do i know,,, i`m not even a brain surgeon :-)
Author:  Phat Kat [ Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
TheMiniMan wrote:
a large diam "gentle" radius hi-lo (with old hard donuts) will creat a firm-er or hard/ harsh/ stiff ride,,, add soft shocks & you have a bag of puss that bounces all over the road & won`t stay on line through our generally sh!tty crap bumpy un-maintained public roads.........................12" are a bit more "Direct" in their initial "turn-in" tho :-)

Hey,,, but what do i know,,, i`m not even a brain surgeon :-)


That a good point and one my "guru" would kick my arse for over looking :) I can say that the donuts are shagged, they're about middle aged and ready to settle down and buy an A/H sprite or something convertable thats says "I'm a tool"... But the Shocks I have are more like the stuff that Indiana Jones movies are made out of :roll:

The 12's are noticable more direct on the turn in, I wasn't sure if it was just me being odd and I couldn't really put my finger on what it was exactly, but thats it I reckon..

Thanks Matt...

And we all know that you knew what a Subeosphagial Ganglian was all along, but you were just keeping your mouth shut to see where it was going... :wink:
Author:  Fat Boy Dave [ Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:03 am ]
Post subject: 
Donuts. How do you know they flat/shagged without removing them?

I notice my Rover has sagged at the front quite discernably from the rear. The suspension was always really firm compared to the Hydro on my K so I can't say I've noticed a real noticable change in ride harshness (it's as bad as it always was).

If they need replacement should I replace all 4 at once or just do the front?

Thanks for all the advice from the gurus.
Author:  GT mowog [ Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Fat Boy Dave wrote:
Donuts. How do you know they flat/shagged without removing them?

I notice my Rover has sagged at the front quite discernably from the rear. The suspension was always really firm compared to the Hydro on my K so I can't say I've noticed a real noticable change in ride harshness (it's as bad as it always was).

If they need replacement should I replace all 4 at once or just do the front?

Thanks for all the advice from the gurus.


Throw up a pic of you mini side on, get down a bit so you as straight on as can be.

The measured height of a new donut - out of the car - is 87 mm.
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