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Rust Treating of Hydro+Brake Pipes
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Author:  68matic [ Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Rust Treating of Hydro+Brake Pipes
gday,
there was peeling surface rust on:
Hydro pipes,
Brake Line pipes,
Subframes (only surface rust here),
Drum Brakes (outer surface only),

so i just took a wire brush and sand paper to them and gave them a lick of Rust Converter. (this stuff is water soluble when in liquid form - the label says it becomes a stable phosphorous compound when reacted to rust)

is this good enough for long term rust prevention?

http://www.angelfire.com/mech/ducho/

please have a look, "underbody" at the bottom of the page

thanks,
duc
Author:  drmini in aust [ Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
I wire brushed my hydro pipes 10 years ago and did them with Permatex rust converter (in the white bottle, orange label). Holding up well. That stuff is good. I think it's made by Loctite now, same bottle though.

Lots of rust converters are NFG- either don't work or don't last.

I'd give them a coat of paint, but I'm too lazy... 8)
Author:  MiniK [ Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
drmini in aust wrote:
I wire brushed my hydro pipes 10 years ago and did them with Permatex rust converter (in the white bottle, orange label). Holding up well. That stuff is good. I think it's made by Loctite now, same bottle though.

Lots of rust converters are NFG- either don't work or don't last.

I'd give them a coat of paint, but I'm too lazy... 8)


i just had a flick through the loctite catalogue and couldnt see anything.........

ive been searching for a good rust converter for awhile know....the best so far has been the k & H stuff ive used.
Author:  drmini in aust [ Tue Apr 20, 2004 4:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've seen it at Autobarn a few weeks back so it's still made. I just looked at the bottle, it sez Loctite, p/no RC1. Ring 'em up... :wink:
Author:  MiniK [ Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
drmini in aust wrote:
I've seen it at Autobarn a few weeks back so it's still made. I just looked at the bottle, it sez Loctite, p/no RC1. Ring 'em up... :wink:


cheers Doc. Ill give them a buzz at work and get them to order it in for me. :)
Author:  mickmini [ Wed May 05, 2004 6:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
If that is what it is like on the outside, imagine what is on the inside. When was the last time you changed the brake fluid? What about the hydro fluid?

Brake fuid is hygroscopic - which means that it absorbs water. This does a few things to it, all of them bad. It allows corrosion to occur on the inside of your brake pipes and other brake components. This will eventually clog up the system, although that usually takes a long time, but how old is the average mini these days? Another thing it does is change the boiling properties of the brake fluid. The last thing you want is the fluid in the pipes near a heat source like a hot drum or disc getting little bubbles of steam in them. This does happen under hard braking, and the pedal will go all spongy which does not build confidence. So every year, change the brake fuid in its entirity, including pumping the new fluid all the way through all of the pipes.

I have rubber suspension on mine, but i can only assume that the hydrospastic fluid has rust inhibitors in it, so how often does it need to be livened up?

The rust converter works ok, i used it 10 years ago when i did my front subframe for the gaps in the seams between the welds where i could not get the wire brush into. I then sprayed paint over the top, just the ordinary enamel spraycan type stuff. I used it every day for five years before it when into storage in a house next to the sea for another five years, and as i am working on it now, i cannot see any emergence of even surface rust. I suppose that modern paints are just heaps better than the original. Best bet is to give a coat of paint over the rust converter to be sure.
Author:  drmini in aust [ Wed May 05, 2004 7:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hydro fluid is a mixture of ethylene glycol, alcohol, and water.
What the alcohol does is anybody's guess.. :lol:

I dump mine out every 2 or 3 years, I buy the fluid in a 4L tin from Karcraft.

you can get an idea what the hydro pipes are like inside, by the colour of the fluid that comes out.

My pipes are 34 years old. :P


Next change, I'm going to try straight glycol. It's a bit thicker, should improve damping. 8)
Author:  68matic [ Wed May 05, 2004 11:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
to rust, oxygen needs to dissolve in water first and then the ions begin to attack the metal surface.
i cant see oxygen getting into the hydrolastic fluid and rusting the insides away, so the outside is usually much more rusty than the inside.

alcohol was probably used because it was cheap and it doesnt dissolve oxygen gas and react with iron like water does. it is also very polar (negative and positive sided) and oxygen is not polar, so that might also prevent oxygen gas dissolving in the fluid.

brake fluid yes it should be changed every year; fill up the reservoir, pump the brake pedal and open/close nipples at each pump peak individually. youll get the hang of it, dad and i tried yelling out pump times... it doesnt work. the nipple opener and closer can tell when the nipple squirts out and sucks in air. NB. you dont want air sucking in

Doc next time you change your hydroL fluid do u mind me lookin over your shoulder? JohnGoudie indefinitely lent me KK fluid and his hydro-mastercylinder-pump and i havent gotten to use it yet coz i dont need to just yet. i know i will have to learn how to use it soon.
Author:  drmini in aust [ Thu May 06, 2004 6:50 am ]
Post subject: 
No problem-
It's too easy: park car on level with handbrake off,
Push one valve in and dump it all out onto the driveway,
Hose it off,
Hook up pump and pump back up, a bit high-
Repeat for other side,
Rock car about, let down to 3 fingers between front wheel arch and 165/70-10 tyre. 8)
Author:  68matic [ Thu May 06, 2004 10:17 am ]
Post subject: 
how do you get rid of the air thats in the pipes as you pump it up?
Author:  drmini in aust [ Thu May 06, 2004 7:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
No air gets in normally, unless you disassemble the pipes and hoses.

If it's all apart, after reassembly I just pump it up high, blow down fast by depressing the valve fully, then pump it up again.
The blowdown lets the fluid in the front bags blow thru to the valve at the back, taking any air in the lines with it.
My local BMC dealer did it this way in the `60s, also Mini Suxuki Spares at Thornleigh (before they moved to Seven Hills). Many others- it's a common method. 8)
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