G'day,

I've been thinking about putting a set of minilites on Minnie and need some advise as to which ones would be best please.

Minnie is a 1963 850 with drum brakes all round and basically stock - no flares and I don't want them either. When doing the resto, I went with the original steel rims and bought new stainless hubcaps for them. As with most reproduction things now, the hubcaps are a bit dodgy and no matter how much I much around with them, one or 2 fly off at times. I've been lucky so far and managed to find them. As far as I can tell, the new caps are a whisker larger diameter than the originals and the lip that holds them in place is curled on the originals and just folded on the new ones. I've tried prying the fold out a bit but still not 100% success.

So I thought I might lash out and put a set on minilites on her but after reading quite a few posts on here, I'm more confused than before. I don't understand what an S offset is and if I did, I'd probably know which ones may be suitable

I'd like to get good quality ones as I'm only going to be buying them once. Also, I've noticed that the 4.5 inch versions say they are only suitable for 145 profile tyres, not 165 - unless I fit spacers. How thick would the spacers need to be? Choices for 10 inch x 145 profile tyres are limited (and expensive compared to 165) and maybe 165 profile would give greater options tyre wise. If I go down the minilite path, I'll put my current 145 profile Falken tyres on as they are still ok apart from wear on the inside rears due to toe out and maybe 165's would be a better longer term solution.

The sort of thing I'm been looking at are these:
https://www.minispares.com/product/Clas ... 0to%20shop

Or maybe these, but they say they have a 3/8" spacer - does this mean I've got to replace the wheel studs with longer ones so the nuts will go on properly?
https://www.miniworld.com.au/product-pa ... 3-8-spacer

I'd like to keep the tyres pretty much under the front guards but a bit outside them would be ok.

Thanks Rocky

Hopefully this helps:
-Drum brake offset - for early drum brake cars with flat drums front and back. (this is also the same as early 7.0" Cooper discs)
-"S" or 7.5" disc offset - these are about an inch wider in track, and to compensate they put the drums on the rear with the built in spacers and longer studs. (this is also the same as later minis with spacer drums front and back, and also 8.4" discs)

If you are buying wheels for drum brakes you need wheels with a lower offset for them to fit the same on the body and avoid scrubbing on the shocks eg:
Drum 4.5" wide and 21mm offset
"S" 4.5" wide and 32mm offset

If you are going for a 5" wide wheel you need an offset of approx 16mm to suit drums.

Separate spacers aren't legal in most of Australia, so check this first before you buy.

4.5" wide wheels should be fine with 145 or 165 tyres, but as they've mentioned sometimes the clearance to the shocks can be tight.

The other option is you replace all your drums with spacer drums and use "S" offset wheels

_________________

Good evening Rocky
Minisport aus in Adelaide say their 10 x 4.5 will fit under any arch on ny mini.

_________________
Cheers Dave.

165s are fine on 4.5” wheels. Proper S wheels are 4.5” and many people run these with 165 tyres (and they fit without arch extensions …. Just:)

If you have standard drums then tell them you want the drum/non S offset. ( The
S offset is sometimes called the FIA type.) AFAIK Minispares dont carry Minilites (as manufactured by TechDel). They sell their own versions known as Minili’f’es…

Properly done spacers (thin ones) are not that obvious. Especially if you attach them to the drum using slightly longer drum retaining screws

Cheers, Ian

Thanks for the info Timmy, Dave and Ian. That all makes sense and I now understand what the difference means when I'm looking at options.

I've had a quick look under Minnie and clearance wise, there's heaps of room on the front for a slightly wider tyre but at the rear, it's a different story. I can't fit my finger between the tyre and shocker and would guess that there's about 1/2" or so clearance at the moment.

I've currently got Falken 145/80 R10 and a possible option if I go to 165 profile in future is the Falken 165/70 R10. I compared these 2 sizes on a comparison site and got the following info:

Overall diameter 145/80 = 19.13" (486mm) - for 165/70 = 19.09" (485mm)
Sidewall height 145/80 = 4.57" (116mm) - for 165/70 = 4.55" (116mm)
Tread width 145/80 = 5.71" (145mm) - for 165/70 = 6.50" (165mm)

The 2 sizes are just about identical apart from the tread width difference of 0.79" (20mm). So that would mean that if I fit 165 profile later on, the sidewall clearance to the shockers on the rear would be reduced by around 10mm compared to what I have on the current 145 tyres. I'll had a good measure of current clearance later on today but as you've mentioned, clearance might be a bit tight.

To overcome this potential problem, could I fit spacer drums (or possibly a thin spacer depending on legalities) to the rear only or do I need to have front and rear the same?
Minisport have these:
https://minisport.com.au/products/mini- ... b15a&_ss=r

And minispares have these:
https://www.minispares.com/product/Clas ... o%20search
https://www.minispares.com/product/Clas ... |Back%20to

Given the tyres will last quite a few years, I'm not that concerned about the price difference between 145 and 165 profile but of course if 165 would fit ok, I'd go down that path.

Thanks Rocky

Falken 165/70-10 are very baggy in the sidewall compared to other brands or your 145s.
I would put spacer drums on the rear...

_________________
DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

When you fit wider wheels with a different offset you may find you have the same tyre clearance or better than standard (or might be worse)

If you go from a 3.5” standard steel wheel to a 4.5” alloy wheel, and the extra width is all on the outer edge of the wheel - the additional 10mm per side would be biased outward

This is a crude example

_________________

Thanks for the info Doc & Timmy. Looks like it's not just a matter of bolting on the new wheels and perhaps I'm better sticking to the 145 profile seeing as though the 165's are not all that flash (unless of course I go with another brand)

If I was going to fit spacer drums as you suggest Doc, are these the ones?

https://minisport.com.au/collections/dr ... e-drum-new

Minnie has 1 1/4" shoes so it looks like these are the right ones. I'll also need longer wheel studs too I reckon. From what I understand looking at the parts list, the standard length studs are 35mm and with an inch step on the new drums, I'd need longer ones. According to minisport, these are the ones:

https://minisport.com.au/products/mini- ... 84bd&_ss=r

If that's the case, then the current ones are 35mm and the longer ones are 55mm which is only 20mm longer than standard but the drum step is 25mm. Does this mean that there would sufficient thread length on the 55mm studs and don't need say 60mm long ones?

I'm going to have another crack at modifying the hubcap somehow so it stays on and I'll post a new thread asking for suggestions with that. I spent hours doing up the old steel rims and they do look good but only if the hubcaps don't keep flying down the road on their own

Cheers Rocky

Yes those drums are correct. Buy Cooper S rear studs and you will be fine.

_________________
DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

Thanks Doc

I had 5x10" contessas on my 850 (with std flat drums) with 165 wide yokohama A008 tyres and they didn't rub on the shocks. Getting the right width and offset means they'll fit fine

_________________

Well I've done a bit more homework on the rims and found out some interesting results. As Timmy has mentioned, the offset of both the steel and minilites needs to be known in order to see what will fit.

After a fair bit of searching I found out the offset for the minilites. For the drum offset version, it's ET23 and the S version, it's ET32 so a 9mm difference. I must say the mini parts suppliers I rang had no idea but a wheel and tyre mob did find out. I also found the info on the US distributors website.

The original 3.5" steels have an offset of 29mm (as accurate I could measure, give or take a fraction of a mm). Overall rim width is 112mm and from inner lip of rim to mounting plate is 85mm. 85mm - (112/2) = 29mm

Therefore, the offset difference between the steels and minilite drum brake version is 6mm, with the minilite rim sitting 6mm further out from the suspension parts by 6mm.

I used a few online offset calculators to see what results I'd get with the 145 profile tyres and also the 165 profile.

Using a calculator that refers only to the rims, it gives the answer as the distance of the inner part of the rim will be 7mm less and the outer will extend by 19mm further out compared to the steels.

I then used a calculator that takes into account the tyre size as well and I compared fitting the 145 and 165 profile tyres.

The result when comparing fitting 145/80R10 tyres to both the steel and minilites gave a result of the inner sidewall being 0.24" or 6mm further out and the outer sidewall sitting 0.24" or 6mm further out. Pretty much the same result as the rim only calculator. As it's the clearance to the rear shock that's tight, I'd have a bit more clearance.

The result when comparing fitting 145/80R10 vs 165/70R10 to the minilites shows the inner sidewall being 0.16" or 4mm closer to the shocks and the outer sidewall being 0.64" or 16mm further out.

I'll have another check but I'd reckon 4mm closer won't be a problem.

Do you blokes see any errors in my reasoning?

Cheers, Rocky

If the minilite is et23 and the steels are et29 then that is 6mm so the 165 would be only 2mm closer which is more than fine. Does that sound right?
As an aside the minisport aus website states their drum offset minilites ar ET21.

_________________
Cheers Dave.

G'day Dave,

Thanks once again for your help. My thinking is that the 165 tyres would be 20mm overall wider than the 145 so 10mm each side of centre. If the offset difference is 6mm then I'd end up with 10 - 6 = 4mm closer which would be still ok I reckon.

I hadn't looked at the wheels you mentioned on minisport as I was looking at the "genuine" minilites as I seem to recall that another forum member here had issues with lower cost alloys but I can't find the thread. Quite likely I read it on another forum, maybe the UK mini one. Minisport AU don't list the drum brake version of the genuine minilites but minispares UK do so no doubt minisport would be able to get them.
These are the other brand that minisport sell with a ET21 offset. Going by the description, the backspace (mounting flange to centre of rim) is 92mm and the genuine minilites are quoted as the same backspace albeit with an offset of ET23. I gather the 1mm difference each side of the rim is the rim thickness. Bugger all difference anyway. These appear to be made by JBW or JB wheels and reviews on the UK forums don't seem to give them a good rap.
https://minisport.com.au/collections/10 ... -only-et21

It would be good if I could actually see the difference between the genuine item and the ones that minisport sell and it looks like I'll have to call into minisport next time I'm over in Adelaide.

The genuine ones listed on the minispares site don't list any details for offset or backspace, only stating that 165 tyres will require spacers.
https://www.minispares.com/product/Clas ... 0to%20shop

As I don't want to run with flares, I've measured the distance of the sidewall on the current 3.5" steels with 145/80 tyres on them and I've got about 10mm inside the front guards and about 20mm on the rear. So with the drum brake version of the minilites fitted with 145 profile tyres, there would be no issue as the tyres would only come out by about 6mm.

If I wanted to fit 165 profile in the future, they would protrude out about another 16mm further than the 145's so they would end up being about 22mm out from current. No problem on the rear but the front might hang out a bit too far but only about 12mm. As a comparison, the S offset would reduce this to just 3mm and for the rears, I'd have to fit the S stepped drums that Doc suggested if I wanted to keep all 4 wheels the same. Boy, nothing is straight forward is it?

As a side issue, I've asked Minisport AU to confirm what standard the 'genuine' rims are made to. In Victoria, vicroads specify a number of standards that aftermarket wheels must conform to. You'd like to think that as they are for sale here, they would meet all regulations.

Cheers Rocky

The “genuine” minilite wheels are made by the most recent reincarnation of the minilite company and they are decent quality, but slightly different in shape to the original wheels

The genuine mini lite wheels are 4.5" and 23mm offset for drum brakes
https://www.minilitewheels.us/mag-style-sizes

As you’ve said JBW have patchy quality, particularly on clear coated machined finished lips

Another few examples for you:

"Reverse Cooper" wheels which are 4.5" wide and the offset is +16. These fit fine with 145 tyres and most 165 would fit, but some brands are a bit more bulbous. (flat drums front and back)



ROH Contessa 5" wide and offset 17mm. These fit fine with 165 Yokohama A008 (flat drums front and back)

_________________