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Different Suspension Knuckle Pins
https://ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=101632		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Bill B [ Sun Dec 18, 2022 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Different Suspension Knuckle Pins
I'm about to replace front suspension knuckle joints on a hydro mini. Among the collected bits is a pair of these but they are longer than the usual ones.

Attachment:
Different length knuckle joints.jpg


The usual one is at top; the longer one is.... well, you can work it out....
But the extra length is in the distance from the edge of the machined ring to the end - the section that fits inside the steel 'cup holder' on the displacer. In fact it is so long that it bottoms out before the machined ring seats correctly

I am aware the factory used pins with a built-in spacer for extra height on 12 inch wheels, but these knuckle pins won't alter ride height at all.

Anyone know what they are meant to be used on and can I just cut off the excess length (about 6mm)?
Author:  timmy201 [ Sun Dec 18, 2022 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Different Suspension Knuckle Pins
You can buy the spacers separately, from memory they were added by the factory until the updated one piece items were introduced later

http://www.minispares.com/product/classic/21A1845.aspx
Author:  Bill B [ Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Different Suspension Knuckle Pins
Thanks Tim.
I'm not sure I've explained this clearly.
While I am aware of the spacers and have them on my minis, I was more concerned that the longer knuckle pins bottom out on hydro setups, even with the usual 0.100inch spacer fitted. See lower unit in photo and the gap between the machined collar and the sleeve of the trumpet.
Attachment:
Longer knuckle pin bottoms out.jpg



Reading the Mini Spares catalogue, I'm starting to think that the longer pins are for post 1984 and post 1990 cars - long after hydro - so bottoming out isn't a problem as there must be plenty room in the trumpet or Hi-Lo for the longer pin. In other words, these 'better quality' knuckle joints aren't catering for hydro and it is up to the fitter to adapt them to fit.
Author:  68+86auto [ Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Different Suspension Knuckle Pins
My one doesn't but according to the minispares catalogue (I think that is where I read it) 12" wheeled minis had a spacer from factory. Maybe they added extra length to improve strength once that spacer is included. If people added a second spacer to increase the height once the cones were bad there wouldn't have been a lot left inside the trumpet.
Author:  timmy201 [ Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Different Suspension Knuckle Pins
Yes I’m guessing they were never designed for hydro minis
Author:  Bill B [ Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Different Suspension Knuckle Pins
68+86auto wrote:
My one doesn't but according to the minispares catalogue (I think that is where I read it) 12" wheeled minis had a spacer from factory. Maybe they added extra length to improve strength once that spacer is included. If people added a second spacer to increase the height once the cones were bad there wouldn't have been a lot left inside the trumpet.


That's possibly a good explanation, since the longer pin in my top photo is otherwise dimensionally identical to the shorter, original type and doesn't give any extra ride height without adding the usual spacer.

Mini Spares catalogue isn't very clear in their descriptions either. They seem to have repeated the same information for several alternative parts making it hard to know what the practical differences are between them and which one suits your car.
Author:  Bubbacluby [ Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Different Suspension Knuckle Pins
I would go for the shorter type. They are a big enough pain trying to get out when replacing without it being even longer and giving you even less room
Author:  Bill B [ Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Different Suspension Knuckle Pins
Bubbacluby wrote:
I would go for the shorter type. They are a big enough pain trying to get out when replacing without it being even longer and giving you even less room


That's worth considering.
It's just that parts catalogues don't usually mention the shaft length since they used to be all the same. Will have to ask in future.
Author:  simon k [ Wed Jan 04, 2023 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Different Suspension Knuckle Pins
I'd go for the longer type... I run a ~2mm spacer anyway, and the extra length might have prevented this in a khanacross last year... happened on the first run out

Attachment:
20230104_100056.jpg


(*cough, still won the event cough*)
Author:  slacko [ Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Different Suspension Knuckle Pins
Hi Bill
Lost your phone number
There are also different length bells, cups . solid steel cooper s I measured at 49.89mm
the cast alloy one with the cross in it measured at 53.56mm
text me your phone number and i will send you some pics
In your pic you have the steel bell cups and in Simon's pic he has the taller alloy ones

Mark
Author:  Bill B [ Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Different Suspension Knuckle Pins
simon k wrote:
I'd go for the longer type... I run a ~2mm spacer anyway, and the extra length might have prevented this in a khanacross last year... happened on the first run out

Attachment:
20230104_100056.jpg


(*cough, still won the event cough*)


Looks a nasty break. Good that it didn't slow you down much!
I notice your broken cone is an alloy one. Would a steel one have been stronger? And your 2mm spacer is well inside the factory recommendations so that shouldn't have contributed to the break.

You probably know that there were cones made 0.150inch longer than standard for built-in extra height on hydro cars. For rallying, I suppose.
Author:  simon k [ Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Different Suspension Knuckle Pins
slacko wrote:
In your pic you have the steel bell cups and in Simon's pic he has the taller alloy ones

Mark


wow - I never knew that - I've only ever noticed the alloy version, but a version in steel (assume earlier?) does make sense

I have thought about machining some up in steel (adjustable of course) - there is a design lurking in my head somewhere, some finishing touches required. Lindsay Siebler told me that he once made an adjustable version
Author:  Bill B [ Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Different Suspension Knuckle Pins
The longer ones were in steel as well. I have one here.
Author:  simon k [ Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Different Suspension Knuckle Pins
Bill B wrote:
Looks a nasty break. Good that it didn't slow you down much!


I noticed it droop on that corner (front right) but I had had the hydro depressurised the day before so I figured that it had just settled (no test drive before putting it on the trailer). No green fluid dripping from anywhere, it still went forward in a straight line so I drove it as normal...

Bill B wrote:
I notice your broken cone is an alloy one. Would a steel one have been stronger? And your 2mm spacer is well inside the factory recommendations so that shouldn't have contributed to the break.

You probably know that there were cones made 0.150inch longer than standard for built-in extra height on hydro cars. For rallying, I suppose.


I didn't know that longer than standard was an option - very good to know.

Doug! part number and dimensions please! :D
Author:  winabbey [ Wed Jan 04, 2023 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Different Suspension Knuckle Pins
simon k wrote:
Doug! part number and dimensions please! :D

The knuckle is part of the displacer assembly and not separately listed in the parts books. Of course it will have a part number but I don't know it. None of the Mini spares places show it as being a new purchasable part. Dismantlers like ReadSpeed may have some.

The dimension A in this drawing is shown in an adjacent table as being 1.62 inches.

The number 1 in a circle is a change dated July 1969 and says "Aluminium die cast piston drawn in lieu of steel piston". I assume that means the steel piston replaced the alloy one in production.

Attachment:
AYA4090 Hydrolastic Spring Unit Assembly part 1.jpg



I think I have one or two from old displacers but don't know if they are alloy or steel. What are you looking for?
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