For those interested in vehicle identification I would like to advise that the Mini and Moke Identification card which was part of the Minis Down Under show bag contents is now available for downloading at http://www.leylandaustralia.com.au This handy A5 card summarises Identification Type Codes and Power Unit code fitments for all models produced in Australia. Information on the card was prepared by Peter Davis and I, and checked over by a couple of experts. As well, I can report that the official listing of power unit identification codes prepared by the Standards Department at Longbridge, has now been unearthed. It contains some 27 pages of closely packed tables of information pertaining to engine and transmission code interpretations and vehicle application for passenger and commercial vehicles for Leyland vehicles world-wide. This incredible document serves as a primary resource for most of our Australian-produced vehicles and I am attempting to organise it into a web-based lookup service. Thank you to those who called in at my stand at the show. It was indeed a memorable event and very well organised. Tony Cripps

This card contains a number of errors plus does not cover all models. Reader beware.

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Enjoy your Mini
Regards
John Sneddon

John. I think it is a reference card for what the factory was going to do. Not what was actually done on the assembly line.

What are the errors and the proof?

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1965 MK1 English Morris Cooper S (Downton)
1967 MK1 Morris Cooper S
1972 Clubman GT (6/72 Cadiz)
1968 MG Midget

"Mr Rialto" is entitled to his "expert" opinion. I'm happy to forward any justifications if anyone has a question about the card. Regards, Tony Cripps

It's great you have gone to the effort of making this and it does have some very useful information.
Though with the errors and codes that were not used on the production line. I think will end up adding to the confusion out there.

Maybe could re-release it again with only the codes used in production?

Great idea though

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Thanks for your polite message Bubbacluby. I can assure readers that codes I put on the card are those specified for the models indicated in the BMC/Leyland standards literature and spec sheets. Whether or not they were actually used on the production line is something I doubt if anyone can say. Many mistakes were made on the production line as we all know. The card attempts to be a fixed point of reference. if someone like gtogreen would like to complie a list from actual plate and stampings data, then I am sure that would be well received. regards Tony

There’s a couple of engine codes I don’t recognise, although I’m relatively new to minis compared to some others:
9YG/Ta/H
9YJ/Ta/H
10YM/U/H
10YB/U/H
10YN/Ta/H

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I appreciate your genuine interest and thank you for specifying specific examples for comment. To answer your questions:

9YG/Ta/H is specified for YDO5 (Morris Mini Deluxe) with a 998cc four speed synchromesh gearbox with 17/64 FDR. It sounds unusual to me also, but they could have been special production orders, or for export but it’s on the books for what it is and listed in case someone comes up with one.

Note, the factory actually uses the term “four speed synchromesh” to indicate synchromesh on all forward gears and the term “3 speed synchromesh” to indicate synchromesh on the three top gears even though of course the gearbox has four forward speeds. The code Ta is used incorrectly for our engines, both in factory specification sheets and engine stampings. Ta is the code for 3 speed synchromesh. Four speed synchromesh gearboxes should have been coded and stamped Te, but for some reason, the standards engineer in Australia did not follow the correct procedure. Hence, on the card, Ta is written as being a faithful reproduction of the Australian standards even though by UK standards, it is wrong. The same thing happens with 1098 engines with four speed synchromesh stamped “U”. The correct code is We.

9YJ/Ta/H is indeed an error, should be 9YJTa/L and is a low compression version of a 3 speed synchromesh 998cc engine for a Deluxe with 17/64 FDR. I apologise for writing H out of habit instead of L. This is probably an export spec, but if one turns up, then it’s on the card for reference.

10YM/U/H is for a series II YDO4 (Morris Mini Minor) Saloon and Van 1098cc with 17/62 FDR. This might look unusual because it is a change in FDR from the normal 17/64 that we are used to seeing.

10YB/U/H is for a Moke supplied special order to TAA, but I am sorry I can’t find where you’ve seen this on the card.

10YN/Ta/H is for a series II YDO5 (Deluxe) with 1098cc 4 speed synchro with 17/62 FDR. Again, a different FDR to what we normally see, but it’s on the books as being specified for that car and could have been a special production order, or for export.

regards, Tony

Sorry it was 10YB/Ta/H in the Mini 1100/K section that I didn’t recognise

Thanks for the extra details on the engine specs, it’s interesting to see what else BMC a was planning behind the scenes

I see what Brad and you are saying that they were on the records as potentially being made, but may have been special order or export

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10YB/Ta/H is 1098cc 3 speed synchromesh for YDO5. Incidentally, the term Mini K is not considered "official" in Product Engineering but was a sales term used in brochures only. it never appears in any drawings. While Brad helped me a lot with the Card, it is not quite correct to say we agreed on everything. Brad is a plate collector and he (as does Terry) and I have differening views on what should have been on this card. I mentioned them previously out of acknowledgement for their considerable efforts in discussion rather than actual endorsement. I am sure he continues to find much to criticise, but my view is that the drawing is correct, and everything else to the contrary is wrong. Others view what's on the car as correct. Both have their positives and negatives and I would invite Brad to consider making up a more comprehensive listing of actual fitments to complete the picture.

I can't say whether or not all the power units listed were fitted to our cars, exports, SPO's or not. The drawings sometimes specify the SPO, but often leave it with ino explanation. On model changeover, various old stock engines were used up. Some engines from UK were used if they were available. Some engines were "booked out" but never produced (e.g. automatic version of Moke).

For later (Enfield) engines, for example, UK sent out the wrong power units (according to the drawing) on some occasions probably to offload stock. E.g. some Mini's were fitted with Allegro power units. regards Tony

Well it could be useful when viewed and used in the correct way, ie

If one views it as a reference for car identification (i.e. you find a car, not sure what it is, this will tell you)
NOT
As a record to make a car original or record for what a car should have (Not for arguing a car should be numbered this way or have engine with that code, doing so will lead to incorrect conclusions)

That way could be used successfully (If i explained myself correctly)

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That’s a valid point you make Brenton. Since a particular vehicle type could have more than one power unit code fitted, probably the only way to determine originality is via plate observations or passport to service entries of nearby vehicles. Gtogreen or miniresto are the only people I know of who would be capable of providing a comprehensive list. Using the card, one could probably make some conclusions though. There must be lots of 1275 minis out there with a Morris 1100s motor, early minis with late motors, etc and so on.

It would be great if FDR was listed, but there are other changes such as emission control fitments, compression ratio, mechanical or electric fuel pump (to just name three) that are encoded in the power unit codes and for a small showbag card, there was no room.

Peter Davis and I have just completely reorganised our Reference Book so that all these identification details are grouped by model now and this new edition will be out next week. Plus, I’ve added a listing of all the power unit codes from the UK master list that appear to apply for Australia (for all the BMC/Leyland models produced here) for useful interpretation.

I appreciate the discussion, and thanks for making a good point. Regards Tony

When the Cripps/Davis Enterprise entered the market some time ago with its claim of access to ex BMC/Leyland employees along with a considerable stock of factory documentation there was a degree of expectation that eventually some of the lost knowledge of production would be available to the motoring public. A series of books have been published including the “Engineering Series” and finally the Mini & Moke Identification Card, a handout document for the Minis Down Under festivities. It is this document which has now been shown to contain numerous errors and incorrect information much of which can be traced back to one of the original publications, BMC – Leyland Australia Vehicle Reference.
Many of the issues which have been identified within the various texts can be drilled down to one specific issue, the information published has been drawn, with good faith, from engineering and production documentation. However, it appears that no cross check has been undertaken to confirm that which was planned is that which went to the marketplace, changes occurred along the way which were not documented back at the engineering stage. It is this important stage which now needs to be undertaken.
As stated in a recent post on this forum, and I quote “Peter Davis and I (the I being Tony Cripps) have just completely reorganised our Reference Book” which I suggest is what is being called the Fourth Edition.
Where does that leave customers who, like me, have purchased in good faith copies of the earlier editions now to find that the work has been redone?
Will past customers be offered copies of the new text “free of charge”?
Until these issues are addressed, particularly in relation to the BMC – Leyland Australia Vehicle Reference document, an immediate recall of this document must be issued to ensure that incorrect information is not present nor will remain within the community.
I ask other forum members for their comment.
Regards
John Sneddon

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Enjoy your Mini
Regards
John Sneddon

Dear Mr Rialto,

The information on the card, and in our book, is, as I have repeatedly said, is focused on Production Engineering documentation which is a primary source of production data. What appears on a vehicle can be the same, close, or completely different. What you might believe are errors are most likely (apart from editorial mistakes) differences between production engineering and production line. I don't see why you continue to have such a problem with this concept.

The new edition of our book is reorganised as stated. As well, some updated information is included because I have now had the chance to interpret more factory information which you do not have and never will. Peter and I have now reorganised the tables, most of which has appeared previously, so that they are organised by models and you can see this in the table of contents which is freely downloadable from the web site. This makes it easier to focus on a particular model without flipping through many pages as was the case previously.

As with any new model vehicle, I don't think you can expect to take your MK! Cooper S back to the dealer and ask for a free replacement MKII. Was your suggestion in this respect a joke? Are you expecting to whip up a frenzy of indignation amongst forum members demanding a free new edition? Unlike your book, I do have a web support page which lists corrections that I wish to make to my previous editions. A reorganisation of contents is not a correction.

So, I’ll tell you what I’ll do John. You attend to your book, suggestions can be found at http://leylandaustralia.com.au/sneddonreview.pdf and when you’re done, let me know and I will send you a free copy of our 4th edition in exchange for a free copy of your corrected book. Can’t be fairer than that.

PS, what’s with the new “Rialto” username? Isn’t this the name of your fictitious publisher?

Regards Tony