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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:36 pm 
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Sorry to hijack the thread again, but it's kinda on topic...

I was reading an article in a mini magazine from a few years back, and they said that if you were fitting hilo's you would need to change the dampers. Is this true? This was a UK magazine, and they were lowering the car a little. I'm looking at raising mine a little.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:10 pm 
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Irish Yobbo wrote:
Sorry to hijack the thread again, but it's kinda on topic...

I was reading an article in a mini magazine from a few years back, and they said that if you were fitting hilo's you would need to change the dampers. Is this true? This was a UK magazine, and they were lowering the car a little. I'm looking at raising mine a little.


Assuming there in good nick, NO.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:14 pm 
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Irish Yobbo wrote:
I was reading an article in a mini magazine from a few years back, and they said that if you were fitting hilo's you would need to change the dampers. Is this true? This was a UK magazine, and they were lowering the car a little. I'm looking at raising mine a little.


the magazines used to say that you needed to change to dampers with less travel because if you lower the car excessively the dampers can bottom out and go pop...

hydro at standard ride height on 10"s for me ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:12 am 
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simon k wrote:
Irish Yobbo wrote:
I was reading an article in a mini magazine from a few years back, and they said that if you were fitting hilo's you would need to change the dampers. Is this true? This was a UK magazine, and they were lowering the car a little. I'm looking at raising mine a little.


the magazines used to say that you needed to change to dampers with less travel because if you lower the car excessively the dampers can bottom out and go pop...

hydro at standard ride height on 10"s for me ;)


I think that was more a potential issue of the trumpet falling out of the cone at full droop on the rear. The droop travel of the shock is the only thing that limits the droop, there being no lower bump stop at the rear. It might be possible to dislodge the trumpet from the cone at the front, but there is a lower bump stop so highly unlikely.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:29 am 
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TheMiniMan wrote:
andyinparadise wrote:
Went for a drive through the Gold Coast Hinterland, ending up at the Tumbulgum Pub for lunch today.

With the family (myself and 3 passengers) not only is the ride pretty rough but the clearance beween the top of the rear wheels and the wheel arch is less than a centimetre. The ride is really hard and it certainly rattles your teeth.
Every little bump scrapes the rear tyres on the inside of the arch.

I know I have just described a typical Mini with 4 up!

I currently have Hi-Lo's only on the front and I would say the original cones all round.

Was thinking about adding Hi-Lo's to the rear and coil springs front and back.

What are your thoughts?

My ultimate setup is to be able to go for a drive with the family every weekend without the above problems.


ok Andy,,, if you`re serious about makjing it like you say then the way i would go is,,, find some decent 2nd hand donuts,,, not squished,,, not sagged,,, not sunken & rock hard,,,, But not New either... something nice condision,,, alreradys easoned but without being 45 years old & stuffed, but not brand new "springy to the moon" either

then fit those donuts with some of my own special "Soft-Foot" hi-los & a full set of KYB "Gas-adjust shocks,,, set up the ride height & "STD" spec,,, not too low,,, not to high & Bob`s your Aunty mate

you will have a lovely ride with just 2 people or 4,,, smooth & comfortable with both different loads,,, it will still handle nice because you are actually "Using" your correct amount of suspension travel, but without being almost "SOLID" like some minis are

for some reason people like rock hard, stiff suspension "Claiming" it to be "Better-Handling",,, well stutter bumping across the opposit side of the road whilst attemting to corner just isn`t my kettle of fish, nor is it my favourit way to corner a mini

minis have some 4" of suspension travel & if correctly fitted out & adjusted correctly, it will serve you well with "loaded" & "Un-loaded" conditions

the trick is in "Blend" of both the donut & the hi-lo condition/designs

Hee hee,,, "some" people on here will "Know" what i`m talking about,,, but sadly other won`t

ok,,, end of dribble,,, move along,,, nothing to see here,,, it was a private conversation & doesn`t concern you lot :-)


so Matt, we don't want to have too high a wheel rate in bump, and also maintain a good amount of travel in bump and droop. The standard cone shape with the right hi-lo shape or standard trumpet make a nice rising rate spring that means you have relatively soft rate in bump to absorb combined with high roll stiffness. Higher damping rates will help with minimising unwanted weight transfer due to roll. That way we maintain a good ride and also get good handling.

Did I understand you right?

cheers
michael

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:30 am 
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mickmini wrote:
so Matt, we don't want to have too high a wheel rate in bump, and also maintain a good amount of travel in bump and droop. The standard cone shape with the right hi-lo shape or standard trumpet make a nice rising rate spring that means you have relatively soft rate in bump to absorb combined with high roll stiffness. Higher damping rates will help with minimising unwanted weight transfer due to roll. That way we maintain a good ride and also get good handling.

Did I understand you right?

cheers
michael


sounds clever.... I think you're probably right about the lowered dampers too ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:26 pm 
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simon k wrote:
mickmini wrote:
so Matt, we don't want to have too high a wheel rate in bump, and also maintain a good amount of travel in bump and droop. The standard cone shape with the right hi-lo shape or standard trumpet make a nice rising rate spring that means you have relatively soft rate in bump to absorb combined with high roll stiffness. Higher damping rates will help with minimising unwanted weight transfer due to roll. That way we maintain a good ride and also get good handling.

Did I understand you right?

cheers
michael


sounds clever.... I think you're probably right about the lowered dampers too ;)


Can you tell I have just been reading "How to make your car handle"? :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:59 pm 
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mickmini wrote:
simon k wrote:
mickmini wrote:
so Matt, we don't want to have too high a wheel rate in bump, and also maintain a good amount of travel in bump and droop. The standard cone shape with the right hi-lo shape or standard trumpet make a nice rising rate spring that means you have relatively soft rate in bump to absorb combined with high roll stiffness. Higher damping rates will help with minimising unwanted weight transfer due to roll. That way we maintain a good ride and also get good handling.

Did I understand you right?

cheers
michael


sounds clever.... I think you're probably right about the lowered dampers too ;)


Can you tell I have just been reading "How to make your car handle"? :lol:


Mick, you`ve read & absorbed quite well :-)

road car & race cars differ in their suspension requirements dramtically tho,,,

i (personally) prefer a nice, soft, comfortable road mini,,, so do the boobies of all the mini driving girls out there i`m sure :-)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:29 pm 
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mickmini wrote:
Can you tell I have just been reading "How to make your car handle"? :lol:


Um yes. Need to work on the use of "bump" and "droop" a bit. They are valid terms for travel and damping but the spring doesn't care what direction the suspension is heading, just absolute position. :lol:

Back to the Original topic. No, coil springs to replace the cones are NOT what you need! They may be ok for a car that only ever has one person on board but that's it.

Minis, like all good light cars with very large change in tare to gross mass (empty to full) have variable rate springing that attempts to be constant frequency. The designers have tried to get the car to feel the same when fully loaded as when empty.

Compare this to a leaf-sprung ute. Empty, she jiggles and bounces and the rear end is too stiff. The frequency is too high. When fully loaded they wallow around and bob up and down over bumps. Now the frequency is too low. Decent constant frequency set-ups are like the air springs on a train, same ride irrespective of load. (decent air-spring setups also have the advantage of constant ride height)

Matt's trick hi-los change the way the spring rate varies with load by the way they touch the rubber of the cone as it compresses. Lots of contact early = steeply rising stiffness. Very little contact = lower stiffness. Hi-los aren't all the same!

Don't put constant rate springs into a mini if you intend to use it with varying load. Simple as that.

M


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:32 pm 
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this is the thread for me. :roll:


Just found out the Koni red's in the front were GONE!. :(
Its bottomed out to such a level where the ride is way to harsh.

I really wanna make a soft ride whats been discussed here.
But being new. What do u mean by hi-los?
And also is there any links to these

Also which company sells these rubberised donuts?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:40 pm 
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Do a google search 'hi-lo mini suspension' for them and there are heaps of images or check them out on any mini part supplier web site.

Basically they are an adjustable ride height device that replaces the standard trumpet which goes in between the rubber cones and the upper control arms. When the rubber cones sag over time you can raise the car back up to your desired height.

Cheers Shane

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:49 pm 
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Some of the imported cast aluminium Hi-Los are very poorly made.
For this reason Karcraft and Matt Read `TheMiniMan' on here both have theirs CNC machined locally from alloy billet.
The knuckle joints fit these properly, which is more than you can say for the bad imported ones.
[edit] With some of these imported Hi-Los the knuckle pin could be thrown in from a foot away, others so tight they needed a press. From the same batch. NO, they were not made in UK...

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Last edited by drmini in aust on Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:43 pm 
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Noting of course that different hilos have been designed to take different knuckle joints - so make sure you get matching sets....

And one of Issigonis' real genius innovations (for cars anyway) was the rubber cone which provided an almost infinitely rising rate suspension with no sudden stop. Bump stops were needed on the more heavily loaded front but not at the back..

IMHO one of the main problems with Mini suspension is when people wind their adjustable shocks up too high. Start with them dead soft and go up from there. 5 or 6 at the front at most and almost nothing at the back. Track settings are stiffer (but not much) and are self defeating on the road.

Cheers, Ian


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:28 am 
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My 2 cents (Canadian and we don't have pennies anymore), better used rubber cones are better than dead flat used up cones - fitted up front with hi-los, trimmed bump stops and Koni Adjustable dampers on the LWB ROO in Sydney area by Greg Maalure and Graham Russell. Nothing done or needed at rear even with the Van loaded with gear. Got us all the way around Australia....

Got ROO home and made the Van ready to cross North America...installed new wiggly pins & bushes, new adjustable lower arms, new adjustable tie-rods/bushes, new knuckles up front, reset the Koni Sports at 1.5 turns...new knuckles & hi-los at rear and...4 NEW RUBBER SPRINGS.

The latter collapsed almost immediately, when the Van was loaded with our gear, spares, tools, a little extra coolant, fuel etc. Blew the advantage of all the new bits and laser alignment right out of the water. PHOTO: 80 kilometres from start rear right down. [img][IMG]http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m20/HunnyPot_01/MMEMWday1and2006_zpsbc1c7861.jpg[/img][/img]

By the time we had 3,000 plus kilometres under our belts in White River, Ontario the left rear cone had 11 exposed threads and 5 thick washers (the right 9 threads and 2 washers) to keep the tires out of the flairs. And the ride at front was harsh. PHOTO: Doing the rear height adjust again in White River, Ontario. [img][IMG]http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m20/HunnyPot_01/MMEMWday62014031_zps95659bc1.jpg[/img][/img]

I'll stop babbling on...just make sure you get the REAL rubber cones.

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