ausmini :: View topic - cr14de conversion?

Also the CG13 are cheap and plentiful but all have lots of km

The cost of rebuilding an engine is small compared to the other costs involved in a conversion.

Irish Yobbo wrote:

The cost of rebuilding an engine is small compared to the other costs involved in a conversion.

That depends on how much diy you do really. I can do pretty much the whole conversion in my garage apart from the driveshafts which i'll have to farm out to a mates dad with a lathe. The biggest expense by far is engineering. I have enough bits and pieces lying around, and the willingness to ghetto things up to get out of this quite cheaply

If you know someone who can do your driveshafts, that's a good money saver. But you'll still spend a lot more on your new brakes, potentially the wheels to go over those brakes, a new fuel system with a high pressure pump and a return line, new exhaust and new gauges and controls. Even if you do everything else yourself, that will add up pretty quickly.

Then you need to look over all your existing parts. Chances are all your suspension bushes and many of the bearing will need replacing, and that's assuming you're keeping the stock suspension.

And after all that work, is it really worth saving the money by not rebuilding an unknown motor? It would be insane not to change the timing belt, oil and water pump. With the engine out and already partially apart, why not spend the extra for the extra performance and peace of mind?

I don't think i need new brakes. I have a leyland with camira disks and a morris with cooper disks. Pretty sure both would pass engineering in that form
Return line may be a hassle but shouldn't cost alot, but i have a few efi pumps from years playing with silvias and skylines. Just need to buy a surge tank (ebay $50) and put a return line in the tank
If i stay NA, then the stock exhaust will suffice, otherwise if I go turbo, I have half dozen larger exhausts i could cut up for parts
I have a selection of gauges

The fuel line I was being cheap and straightened and bent the fuel hoses out of the micra, no need for a swirl-pot as I put the fuel pump in the bottom of the MPI / SPI tank.

Spot uses an RC40 exhaust at 1 3/4" I was required by the engineer to pass an emissions test (no longer required emissions go with the vehicle) so I needed a cat to pass.

I ended up doing my driveshafts a little differently, the Micra / pulsar shafts were larger than the OD of the Cooper S splines so we shortened the shafts and cut Cooper S splines on them. They weren't all that dear.

Did you get an engineer shop to do that? Did they heat treat them etc? approx price?

Author:	too_much_boost [ Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:31 am ]
Post subject:	cr14de conversion?
Hi I'm looking at options for my mini conversion. Currently the ones on the top of the list are: CG13DE (small size and low weight) G13B (lots of revs) 4EFTE (lots of power but tight fit) The main issue I have with all of these is finding a donor car without a million kms on it. Then i looked into the CR14DE and it looks like a viable option as there are low km ones out there, ok power, VVL, but not sure on whether they will fit. What are peoples thoughts on this one?

Author:	Harley [ Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: cr14de conversion?
I don't have any specific knowledge on the CR14DE, but if it's similar to the micra engine life shouldn't be that hard. There's nothing wrong with engines from the 90s like the Hondas, suzukis and Toyota, provided they fit into the category where you could say they have good followings with enthusiasts. I originally thought when doing my cars that a 20 year old engine would be bad, but most parts are still available to rebuild the engines and keep them going. Just because the engine is low kms use doesn't mean it wont come without headaches - lots of the more modern stuff will have immobilisers or other items to bypass electronically, or the sensors or computers will work in a way where they don't like being disconnected from other parts in the donor car.

Author:	simon k [ Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: cr14de conversion?
wooo.... http://forum.jdmstyletuning.com/showthr ... t-for-sale looks like an SC14 blower

Author:	Irish Yobbo [ Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: cr14de conversion?
There's no reason why it won't work as far as I know. It looks like a good option. One thing that is worth cosidering though is the amount of support and information available to you. I'm doing a 4EFTE conversion because there are readily available subframes (I'm using one of Tricky's), several people on the forum have done it and there is a lot of information, including wiring diagrams and pin-outs. Nothing wrong with being a trail-blazer and using an engine no-body has used before, but there's just a lot more work involved.

Author:	Silobin [ Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: cr14de conversion?
A k10b with a vw m24 supercharger would be mad, or the k10c turbo from the new baleno would be madder!!! (I'm a bit of a Suzuki nut)

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Author:	fuzzy-hair-man [ Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: cr14de conversion?
There's a CGA3DE as well, same size as the CG13DE but is a 1348cc standard, with Corsa / barina pistons @ 72.5mm = 1367cc or 73mm = 1386cc which is the same as the CR14DE but with no VVL. Unfortunately the CGA3DE didn't come into Australia... Nissan always tells me "there's none in the country, 3 weeks and $$$$$" ( something like 5 to 10 times the price on the internet) so it's only 2nd hand parts support is the difference if you can get one, that said Nissan Australia can't find CG10DE pistons listed on their pooter despite being common in the UK europe.

Author:	too_much_boost [ Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: cr14de conversion?
I'm thinking this CR14DE idea is going to be difficult due to lack of manual drivelines and lack of understanding of them. Ideally I'll want to be turbocharging, or tweaking it in some way but googling this engine doesn't give me much information compared to CG13DE which seems to have a solid following and tuning options. Also the CG13 are cheap and plentiful but all have lots of km

Author:	Irish Yobbo [ Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: cr14de conversion?
too_much_boost wrote: Also the CG13 are cheap and plentiful but all have lots of km The cost of rebuilding an engine is small compared to the other costs involved in a conversion.

Author:	too_much_boost [ Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: cr14de conversion?
Irish Yobbo wrote: The cost of rebuilding an engine is small compared to the other costs involved in a conversion. That depends on how much diy you do really. I can do pretty much the whole conversion in my garage apart from the driveshafts which i'll have to farm out to a mates dad with a lathe. The biggest expense by far is engineering. I have enough bits and pieces lying around, and the willingness to ghetto things up to get out of this quite cheaply

Author:	Irish Yobbo [ Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: cr14de conversion?
too_much_boost wrote: Irish Yobbo wrote: The cost of rebuilding an engine is small compared to the other costs involved in a conversion. That depends on how much diy you do really. I can do pretty much the whole conversion in my garage apart from the driveshafts which i'll have to farm out to a mates dad with a lathe. The biggest expense by far is engineering. I have enough bits and pieces lying around, and the willingness to ghetto things up to get out of this quite cheaply If you know someone who can do your driveshafts, that's a good money saver. But you'll still spend a lot more on your new brakes, potentially the wheels to go over those brakes, a new fuel system with a high pressure pump and a return line, new exhaust and new gauges and controls. Even if you do everything else yourself, that will add up pretty quickly. Then you need to look over all your existing parts. Chances are all your suspension bushes and many of the bearing will need replacing, and that's assuming you're keeping the stock suspension. And after all that work, is it really worth saving the money by not rebuilding an unknown motor? It would be insane not to change the timing belt, oil and water pump. With the engine out and already partially apart, why not spend the extra for the extra performance and peace of mind?

Author:	too_much_boost [ Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: cr14de conversion?
Irish Yobbo wrote: If you know someone who can do your driveshafts, that's a good money saver. But you'll still spend a lot more on your new brakes, potentially the wheels to go over those brakes, a new fuel system with a high pressure pump and a return line, new exhaust and new gauges and controls. Even if you do everything else yourself, that will add up pretty quickly. I don't think i need new brakes. I have a leyland with camira disks and a morris with cooper disks. Pretty sure both would pass engineering in that form Return line may be a hassle but shouldn't cost alot, but i have a few efi pumps from years playing with silvias and skylines. Just need to buy a surge tank (ebay $50) and put a return line in the tank If i stay NA, then the stock exhaust will suffice, otherwise if I go turbo, I have half dozen larger exhausts i could cut up for parts I have a selection of guages Moral to this story is i'm a hoarder, which helps alot in times like these Irish Yobbo wrote: Then you need to look over all your existing parts. Chances are all your suspension bushes and many of the bearing will need replacing, and that's assuming you're keeping the stock suspension. These are optional in my opinion. Worn suspension is worn and should be replaced, regardless of an engine conversion Irish Yobbo wrote: And after all that work, is it really worth saving the money by not rebuilding an unknown motor? It would be insane not to change the timing belt, oil and water pump. With the engine out and already partially apart, why not spend the extra for the extra performance and peace of mind? Agreed on the point of replacing 'consumable' items while the engine is out like belts and pumps. Whole micras can be bought for a couple of hundred dollars so I'll probably just push the engine till it breaks I'm not doing a restoration or building a racecar - that might come a few years down the track. Just looking for a driveline that's more reliable, more power, more economical, interesting and will fit in the bay without cutting

Author:	fuzzy-hair-man [ Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: cr14de conversion?
too_much_boost wrote: I don't think i need new brakes. I have a leyland with camira disks and a morris with cooper disks. Pretty sure both would pass engineering in that form Return line may be a hassle but shouldn't cost alot, but i have a few efi pumps from years playing with silvias and skylines. Just need to buy a surge tank (ebay $50) and put a return line in the tank If i stay NA, then the stock exhaust will suffice, otherwise if I go turbo, I have half dozen larger exhausts i could cut up for parts I have a selection of gauges Mine didn't need new brakes, I maintain brakes are more about stopping weight not power, with more power you may need to stop more often so needs to get rid of more heat but doesn't need more power. My Cooper S disks passed without a booster. The fuel line I was being cheap and straightened and bent the fuel hoses out of the micra, no need for a swirl-pot as I put the fuel pump in the bottom of the MPI / SPI tank. Spot uses an RC40 exhaust at 1 3/4" I was required by the engineer to pass an emissions test (no longer required emissions go with the vehicle) so I needed a cat to pass. Irish Yobbo wrote: And after all that work, is it really worth saving the money by not rebuilding an unknown motor? It would be insane not to change the timing belt, oil and water pump. With the engine out and already partially apart, why not spend the extra for the extra performance and peace of mind? The CG13 seems pretty reliable, get a running car and I think it's worth a try for NA, turbo and you'd probably be doing supporting mods so opening up the engine. I'd replace the water pump and an O ring on the metal pipe on the back of the block(seals harden and leak), it's got a timing chain so doesn't need changing as often as a timing belt but they do stretch / wear. I ended up doing my driveshafts a little differently, the Micra / pulsar shafts were larger than the OD of the Cooper S splines so we shortened the shafts and cut Cooper S splines on them. They weren't all that dear.

Author:	too_much_boost [ Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: cr14de conversion?
fuzzy-hair-man wrote: The fuel line I was being cheap and straightened and bent the fuel hoses out of the micra, no need for a swirl-pot as I put the fuel pump in the bottom of the MPI / SPI tank. Spot uses an RC40 exhaust at 1 3/4" I was required by the engineer to pass an emissions test (no longer required emissions go with the vehicle) so I needed a cat to pass. That fuel line trick isn't a bad idea if the lengths are about right. I'll look into that. You are lucky to have found an efi fuel tank. I dont think they are that common or cheap. Both my minis have 1 3/4 ish exhausts fuzzy-hair-man wrote: I ended up doing my driveshafts a little differently, the Micra / pulsar shafts were larger than the OD of the Cooper S splines so we shortened the shafts and cut Cooper S splines on them. They weren't all that dear. Did you get an engineer shop to do that? Did they heat treat them etc? approx price?

Author:	pockets [ Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: cr14de conversion?
Watsons in the UK included a Rover GTi MPI tank in my VTEC kit and put an uprated (3 bar) pump in it for me. Great solution all round - return line and all, and it fits straight in, no mods needed. It does have the flap in the filler neck but that really isn't a problem. Our petrol station fuel fillers go in OK.

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