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| Warwick Agustin's 4AGE on a mini gearbox https://ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=9036 |
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| Author: | Metalfab_101 [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Warwick Agustin's 4AGE on a mini gearbox |
I have read Drmini mention this thing a couple of times, and last night when I was thumbing through my workshop manual I looked at a picture of the drop gears and though to myself "I wonder how the hell he got around that???" Any ideas? |
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| Author: | Mini Mad [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:12 am ] |
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I'm pretty sure it sit's on top and is chain driven off the crank ...don't quote me though.. |
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| Author: | Metalfab_101 [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:42 am ] |
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Mini Mad wrote: I'm pretty sure it sit's on top and is chain driven off the crank ...don't quote me though..
Yeah I guess that would work. Kinda "agricultural" though 
And you'd still have to make some sort of extension to the crankshaft so you could mount the flywheel to something. Hard yards! Well, concept is simple but executing it well would be tough. |
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| Author: | mickmini [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:29 pm ] |
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agricultural? maybe in your mind, but its no more agricultural than 13sec or Minstars subframes (no offence guys). Put in Warwicks words, the chain can handle 1000hp, don't think there will be any problems with 200hp. chains are used on high performance applications everywhere, and mechanical efficiency of a chain drive compared to a multiple gear drive is very good.. My Dad is old mates with Warwick (and its Agustin not Austin  ) and i spent a lot of time in his workshop when he built it up. Things he did to fit it included (based on my flakey memory)
1: gearbox casing was lengthened at the radiator end by welding alloy plate on shaped to mate with the bottom of the 4AGE which is about 2 inces longer than A-series. The mating surfaces were milled flat and level. 2: the clutch/drop gear housing was cut and a piece welded in to raise the centre of the hole for the primary gear/crank tail, mating surfaces were milled flat and level. 3: a mini crank tail was lathe welded onto the 4AGE crank (personally i would have done this differently, as he had numerous problems before finding the ultimate solution) 4: a primary gear was machined and lathe welded onto a new chain gear, so the finished piece was a chain gear with the clutch splines off the primary gear. 5: a new chain gear was machined to fit to the gearbox input shafts 6: numerous fiddly bits like oil pickups etc were sorted 7: a hollinger straight cut dog engagement gearset fitted, with locked diff. 8: chain fitted Warwick started developing this in 1990 and its still going strong. There is a lot of precision machining involved so it is quite expensive, and that made it prohibitive to sell in a commercial sense. michael |
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| Author: | Metalfab_101 [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:25 pm ] |
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Thanks for your input Michael! You're right about the chain thing, it's probably more in my head than anything. I thought about it after I posted and couldn't really find anything wrong with the concept. It would certainly be able to handle the power & torque if the right chain was used. Do you know how the chain is tensioned? mickmini wrote: 3: a mini crank tail was lathe welded onto the 4AGE crank (personally i would have done this differently, as he had numerous problems before finding the ultimate solution)
How would you have done this differently? I couldn't think of any other way to get around it. Again, thanks for your input. Cheers, Damo. |
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| Author: | minstar [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:30 pm ] |
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My subframe agricultural! I'll have you know many hours were spent with masking tape and a felt tip marker sorting that one out.... To my mind it is all about resources. You look at modern engines and you go "Wow what a neat solution", but lets face it you don't see the stuffups and you don't see the millions possible billions that go into the design and manufacture of modern engines...
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| Author: | Metalfab_101 [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:49 pm ] |
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minstar wrote: My subframe agricultural! I'll have you know many hours were spent with masking tape and a felt tip marker sorting that one out....
To my mind it is all about resources. You look at modern engines and you go "Wow what a neat solution", but lets face it you don't see the stuffups and you don't see the millions possible billions that go into the design and manufacture of modern engines...You're going to the lengths of replacing the A-series tractor engine and it's still tarred with the agricultural brush. You can't win!!!
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| Author: | minstar [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:58 pm ] |
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thanks Metalfab I thought agricultural was a bit harsh I thought some of the design concepts were pretty good actually, especially as I learnt to weld working on this project. Also love you cut once byline. Couldn't agree more. Should be appropriate when I start doin this exhaust!! |
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| Author: | feralsprint [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Why he did it |
At the time Warwick did the conversion the rules for supermini's said you could run any motor as long as you could use the mini gearbox, it is a cedit to him that after all these years it is still going strong with no mechanical problems and if you get a chance have a look at it. He added extra oil filtration both before and after it goes through the motor and I really doubt that there are any other motors mounted to a mini box that can say after12 or 13 years of racing that they haven't been totally rebuilt. In his own words last time at Wakefield he wouldn't do it again but the rules are now changed and he would just do a full motor/gearbox transplant. |
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| Author: | Metalfab_101 [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why he did it |
feralsprint wrote: At the time Warwick did the conversion the rules for supermini's said you could run any motor as long as you could use the mini gearbox, it is a cedit to him that after all these years it is still going strong with no mechanical problems and if you get a chance have a look at it. He added extra oil filtration both before and after it goes through the motor and I really doubt that there are any other motors mounted to a mini box that can say after12 or 13 years of racing that they haven't been totally rebuilt. In his own words last time at Wakefield he wouldn't do it again but the rules are now changed and he would just do a full motor/gearbox transplant.
I would love to have a look at it but I think he is in NSW? He probably wouldn't appreciate some nitwit poking around anyway
Any pics of it floating around? |
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| Author: | min13k [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:23 pm ] |
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yep 
taken at wakefield park makka |
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| Author: | drmini in aust [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:59 pm ] |
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Last time at Wakefield Pk he was quicker in practice than Charlie Borg's VTEC Mini, until a driveshaft broke. 
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| Author: | Metalfab_101 [ Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:03 am ] |
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That is super cool! I wonder what that plate is on top of the clutch housing? Access to the chain for oiling & tensioning perhaps? Thanks for the pics Makka! 
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| Author: | mickmini [ Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:46 pm ] |
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geez Minstar, don't you know a backhanded compliment when you see one 
my point was that i thought the chain was an elegant solution in both design and execution, just as a new subframe is in your case. matalfab got it cos he withdrew his agricultural slur ..... and that is a scatter shield on top of the clutch housing, it runs all the way around the back. absolute requirement on a race mini according to CAMS. when the flywheel explodes it is supposed to stop the fragments from penetrating the driver. btw the car weighs in at about 450kg and has corona front discs, a beam rear axle on coil overs etc he pushed the sports sedan/supermini rules to the limit. 
Warwick is a great bloke and would be happy to talk away all day. He lives out at Canowindra now, but often goes to hillclimbs at Bathurst and occasionally goes to Wakefield for the supermini races. He was helping my brother a couple of weeks ago at the races at Oran Park, just because he happened to be in Sydney. If you see him with the car at the races, just go up and say hi. michael |
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| Author: | doogie [ Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:26 pm ] |
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The plate is a scatter sheild, if your flywheel explodes & goes thru the housing the sheild stops it getting through the firewall & getting into the driver, think about where the "family jewels" are located when the flywheel is spinning at 8,000rpm. Doogie |
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